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  1. #76
    IMPERIUS REX!!! Rheged's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berserker View Post
    616 Sunfire is too much of an abrasive and arrogant loner. Exiles Sunfire and AoA Sunfire are far superior. I really wish they'd bring back Mariko. Have 616 Sunfire die so that she can take his place. Exiles Mariko was far more willing to work with people and even got along with her teammates. Not to mention she was a far better superhero than 616 Sunfire could ever hope to be.

    In Alter Ego: The Comic Book Artist Collection, Roy Thomas originally intended for Sunfire to have been the 6th X-Man. Back then, mutant powers were linked to atomics and the Original 5's parents were all involved in the Manhattan Project so Thomas decided why not have a mutant spawned from Hiroshima? However, Stan Lee axed it and for good reason. Sunfire just doesn't work as a character much less a superhero. Even Claremont couldn't find a way to use him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Berserker View Post
    Most people prefer Exiles Mariko to 616 Shiro because she actually sparked interest amongst readers. Mariko was an assertive individual who enjoyed the role as a superhero unlike the cold and distant Shiro.

    As for being Japan's guardian, I don't think being a big fish in a little pond is anything to boast about. Shiro hasn't accomplished anything on his own when Japan is in danger like the time Moses Magnum tried to sink it and the X-Men bailed him out.

    Stan Lee made a good call in rejecting Shiro as the sixth X-Man. 60's readers wouldn't have received a Japanese member in the X-Men very well. What could he possibly bring to the table in terms of plot and character interaction? Shiro's not a team player and doesn't even like his fellow mutants. He would just anger his fellow X-Men and thwart Xavier every turn. Not to mention he'd be too foreign and unable to relate to comic fans.
    You're projecting your own prejudices onto the entire comic fandom of the 60s -- and barely that, as Sunfire appeared in late 1969, IIRC. Comic fans of that era were more than able to accept non-white characters on teams. Not to mention, Sunfire was introduced like two issues before X-Men was canceled. It seems readers didn't receive the all white, mostly male cast all that well. Adding Sunfire would have been a gamble to revive a poorly selling series, and the fact that adding an international and diverse cast to the All New X-Men in 1975, including Sunfire, was so successful, proved Roy Thomas was right.

    As far as your complaints that "Sunfire is too much of an abrasive and arrogant loner" and that he didn't enjoy the role as a superhero "unlike the cold and distant Shiro" ... you're describing Wolverine's appearances in the early Claremont issues. It's only because he was on the team and written about regularly -- a treatment that Sunfire hasn't enjoyed -- that Wolverine became such a beloved character. And if you look at those stories, or even what they are planning for the next event, a good story involves conflict, and for a team, that also means conflict within the team.

  2. #77
    IMPERIUS REX!!! Rheged's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bart Simpson View Post
    I really wish Sunfire would join the X-Men full time.
    As I posted above, I thought Sunfire was too much a nationalist to join the X-Men full time ... but as Aguja has pointed out, Sunfire has some unresolved issues. Perhaps he needs to work them out before he feels worthy of his country? In which case, a stint as an X-Men would be perfect!

  3. #78
    † LINSUS X ZAYNT MALIK † Chase_Stein's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheged View Post
    You're projecting your own prejudices onto the entire comic fandom of the 60s -- and barely that, as Sunfire appeared in late 1969, IIRC. Comic fans of that era were more than able to accept non-white characters on teams. Not to mention, Sunfire was introduced like two issues before X-Men was canceled. It seems readers didn't receive the all white, mostly male cast all that well. Adding Sunfire would have been a gamble to revive a poorly selling series, and the fact that adding an international and diverse cast to the All New X-Men in 1975, including Sunfire, was so successful, proved Roy Thomas was right.

    As far as your complaints that "Sunfire is too much of an abrasive and arrogant loner" and that he didn't enjoy the role as a superhero "unlike the cold and distant Shiro" ... you're describing Wolverine's appearances in the early Claremont issues. It's only because he was on the team and written about regularly -- a treatment that Sunfire hasn't enjoyed -- that Wolverine became such a beloved character. And if you look at those stories, or even what they are planning for the next event, a good story involves conflict, and for a team, that also means conflict within the team.
    Great post, Rheged.
    "It doesn’t matter [if] you’re...Asian..., you can make it here in America if you’re willing to try." - Obama

  4. #79
    Junior Member Dupe1979's Avatar
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    Sunfire has never really gotten a chance to excel, I think his abrassive nature could make for some great character interaction. He is an excellent reclaimation prospect for Peter David, (the king of wasted character revival), in a similar vein that PAD used Quicksilver.

    I'd love for Sunfire to take a turn in X-Factor!
    The FUX-Men: Jamie Madrox, Strong Guy, Layla Miller, Forge, Bishop, Quicksilver, Monet, Beast.

    "We're the Good Guys, and we do not F'n care what you think about that!"

  5. #80

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    Sunfire is one of the few X-Men I knew of before reading comics. I remember him on Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends.




  6. #81
    Junior Member Dupe1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seresecros View Post
    Disagree. Milligan gave him his legs back, his attitude back, but kept him a strong anti-hero. Even without legs, he escaped from Apocalypse. Then, just before he got away, he heard the screams of someone being tortured in one of the rooms behind him. So what did he do? He went back to save them.
    That scene was literally the only thing interesting in "Blood of Apocalypse." Shame the sacrafice was wasted with no real follow up.
    The FUX-Men: Jamie Madrox, Strong Guy, Layla Miller, Forge, Bishop, Quicksilver, Monet, Beast.

    "We're the Good Guys, and we do not F'n care what you think about that!"

  7. #82
    Junior Member Berserker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheged View Post
    You're projecting your own prejudices onto the entire comic fandom of the 60s -- and barely that, as Sunfire appeared in late 1969, IIRC. Comic fans of that era were more than able to accept non-white characters on teams. Not to mention, Sunfire was introduced like two issues before X-Men was canceled. It seems readers didn't receive the all white, mostly male cast all that well. Adding Sunfire would have been a gamble to revive a poorly selling series, and the fact that adding an international and diverse cast to the All New X-Men in 1975, including Sunfire, was so successful, proved Roy Thomas was right.

    As far as your complaints that "Sunfire is too much of an abrasive and arrogant loner" and that he didn't enjoy the role as a superhero "unlike the cold and distant Shiro" ... you're describing Wolverine's appearances in the early Claremont issues. It's only because he was on the team and written about regularly -- a treatment that Sunfire hasn't enjoyed -- that Wolverine became such a beloved character. And if you look at those stories, or even what they are planning for the next event, a good story involves conflict, and for a team, that also means conflict within the team.
    X-Men was canceled due to lack of direction which contributed to declining sales. The All-New All-Different team breathed life back into the title and propelled X-Men into it's popularity in the 80's and 90's. However Sunfire was intended to be dropped as an X-Man. The same for John Proudstar. It wouldn't have made a difference if Sunfire had remained.

    I am no fan of 616 Sunfire, but AoA Sunfire deserves praise and respect. Had Marvel designed 616 Shiro as his alternate universe counterpart, there'd be more appreciation from fans.

  8. #83
    IMPERIUS REX!!! Rheged's Avatar
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    Cool. Was Sunfire a regular? One of the Amazing Friends? Or a guest star?

    I'd love to see Peter David's take on Sunfire.

  9. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheged View Post
    Cool. Was Sunfire a regular? One of the Amazing Friends? Or a guest star?

    I'd love to see Peter David's take on Sunfire.
    He was a guest star. He had the...hots...for Firestar and Iceman tried to cockblock him.

  10. #85
    IMPERIUS REX!!! Rheged's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berserker View Post
    X-Men was canceled due to lack of direction which contributed to declining sales. The All-New All-Different team breathed life back into the title and propelled X-Men into it's popularity in the 80's and 90's. However Sunfire was intended to be dropped as an X-Man. The same for John Proudstar. It wouldn't have made a difference if Sunfire had remained.

    I am no fan of 616 Sunfire, but AoA Sunfire deserves praise and respect. Had Marvel designed 616 Shiro as his alternate universe counterpart, there'd be more appreciation from fans.
    I'm sure there are a variety of reasons for the cancellation of X-Men, but my point was it had nothing to do with the proposed addition of some diversity to the team, and Roy Thomas had the right idea.

    Perhaps Sunfire and John Proudstar were intended from the beginning to leave, just like the O5, because there were too many characters to deal effectively with. But again, my point was a diverse cast including non-Americans, like what Roy Thomas wanted to do with Sunfire, worked.

    And of course it would have been different if Sunfire remained. Not only in story content, but perhaps even the inclusion of Wolverine.

  11. #86
    IMPERIUS REX!!! Rheged's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electric Version View Post
    He was a guest star. He had the...hots...for Firestar and Iceman tried to cockblock him.
    LOL! Now I want to see that.

  12. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheged View Post
    LOL! Now I want to see that.
    You can!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnobfCmOz-0

  13. #88
    IMPERIUS REX!!! Rheged's Avatar
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    Oh my! Poor Iceman. Sunfire and Firestar are too cute.

  14. #89
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    What's Sunfire up to theseday?

    he's not living in Utopia, he's not even involve in any X-team lately
    Limbo'd?

  15. #90
    Elder Member Aguja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheged View Post
    As I posted above, I thought Sunfire was too much a nationalist to join the X-Men full time ... but as Aguja has pointed out, Sunfire has some unresolved issues. Perhaps he needs to work them out before he feels worthy of his country? In which case, a stint as an X-Men would be perfect!
    I agree with you actually. It's tough to sell him as a team hero because he tends to be a loner or at least tends to want to just protect Japan. But I think part of that is because he hasn't been written on a regular basis since his first appearance. He was a part of X-Corporation before M Day so there is a possibility that his priorities were shifting to wanting to help on a global level.

    One of the positives about M Day was that it brought mutants who would normally have stayed away from the X-Men into the X fold. I would have loved to have seen Shiro freed from Apocalypses' control guest starring in Uncanny or something to work with the X-Men in trying to help depowered mutants in Japan. He could overtime then become part of the team.

    Electric Version I have never seen that show before! His classic costume looks great in that, thanks.

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