CBR: IDW Revives Fallen Angel

[CBR News]

Peter David & JK Woodward's Liandra returns in July's "Fallen Angel: Reborn"
from IDW Publishing, and features a guest appearance by Joss Whedon's Illyria
from the pages of "Angel."


Full article here.

[Snowspinner]

I got into Fallen Angel when I downloaded a torrent of the first 7 issues or so - before any trades were out. I loved it, bought the remainder of the DC series, and bought the entire IDW series.

But given that PAD recently declared that he did not want readers to get into his books via torrents, I feel as though I should respect his wishes and not continue buying Fallen Angel.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I got into Fallen Angel when I downloaded a torrent of the first 7 issues or so - before any trades were out. I loved it, bought the remainder of the DC series, and bought the entire IDW series.

But given that PAD recently declared that he did not want readers to get into his books via torrents, I feel as though I should respect his wishes and not continue buying Fallen Angel.

Uhhhh ok.... this doesn't make sense .

Ok I liked the series and the entire IDW series. And its coming back and since I can't get torrents of old stuff , I'm not gonna buy Fallen Angel now.

[vazel]

I got into Fallen Angel when I downloaded a torrent of the first 7 issues or so - before any trades were out. I loved it, bought the remainder of the DC series, and bought the entire IDW series.

But given that PAD recently declared that he did not want readers to get into his books via torrents, I feel as though I should respect his wishes and not continue buying Fallen Angel.

[Peter David]

Uhhhh ok.... this doesn't make sense .

Ok I liked the series and the entire IDW series. And its coming back and since I can't get torrents of old stuff , I'm not gonna buy Fallen Angel now.

Sure it makes sense. He's trying to pick a fight. Won't work, but that's what he's trying to do.

PAD

[Greygor]

Sure it makes sense. He's trying to pick a fight. Won't work, but that's what he's trying to do.

PAD

I picked up the Omnibus which is priced very well on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1600103820

but I did notice one customer review that made me smile

Couldn't bring myself to read it. Gave it to my 18 year old son and it is still sitting on a shelf. This is unfortunate since we both love to read Peter David's work but I didn't expect it to be a "comic" book. I didn't see anything when I ordered it that said it was of that type.

Is our education system so low that we have to lower our standards of writing excellence to match it now?

He really doesn't get it does he


Quick Question for PAD if he's still around, does the Omnibus lead straight to the new series or is there something in between

[Snowspinner]

Uhhhh ok.... this doesn't make sense .

Ok I liked the series and the entire IDW series. And its coming back and since I can't get torrents of old stuff , I'm not gonna buy Fallen Angel now.

No, I can get torrents of the old stuff easily. I assume. I haven't looked, since I have it all now in paper, but I'd be shocked if no torrents of Fallen Angel existed.

The point, for me, is an ethical one. I got into Fallen Angel via piracy. I think I made a rational decision given the circumstances - a book that was praised for its complex plotting was eight issues into its run. No trade existed. I couldn't easily get the back issues. I was interested in the book. I got scans of issues 1-8, liked them, and bought the remainder of the run. The alternatives were "jump into the book mid-plot arc and with no prior knowledge" or "don't buy the book." I picked the route that seemed most likely to make me keep buying the book, and I kept buying the book.

I'm not asking for a thank you note from PAD or anything. But on the other hand, to me this goes both ways. I am an active comics fan with a large pull account that, until this dust-up, contained three titles by Peter David. I also have downloaded a significant amount of comics. He can't have it both ways here - he can have my money, or he can cast downloaders out.

And, fwiw, I've not dropped X-Factor or Wolverine: First Class, both of which I picked up without torrenting prior issues. And unless PAD blasts torrenters as tainted clear through, I have no plans to drop those. But PAD actively blasted people who get into a comic the way I got into Fallen Angel.

Honestly, more than anything, I wish the experiment could be run - if everyone who got into Fallen Angel through means like mine (reading copies they don't own) dropped the book, and everyone who has been following the book via illegal downloads added it, what would sales do.

My guess is they'd drop, because I think FA hits a smarter comics audience that is devoted to the medium, and wants good books to succeed. And so I don't think people who like FA are people who would screw it.

Mind you, I suspect X-Factor would drop if the same test were applied to it.

[Snowspinner]

Sure it makes sense. He's trying to pick a fight. Won't work, but that's what he's trying to do.

PAD

Nah, that would be vain of me. I mean, it's not like Peter David reads these forums and is going to reply to the post.

What I'm trying to do is illustrate, directly, that comics torrenting is a mixed bag. He has a creator-owned series I missed the initial announcement of, and could not get a run of back issues of easily. I looked at what I had missed on a torrent, liked it, and he got nearly 40 issues of sales out of me for it.

I have no doubt that there are outright freeloaders who download what they could buy. The fact that there's a weekly "new releases" torrent is proof of that.

And I don't pretend that I sit at some morally blameless end of the spectrum opposite all of that. I'm sure I have downloads of things that I could easily have obtained the issues of.

But torrenting of comics isn't a simple issue of evil false fans vs. creators.

And I took (and continue to take) offense when a creator whose work I respect and have actively followed for years and across several media turns on me for catching up on one of his series and then spending well north of $100 following it. Or, perhaps more accurately, I take offense when he turns on a whole swath of people and lumps me in with them without stopping and thinking about it as a series of individual decisions. And individual decisions that are caused, to a large extent, by serious hostility towards new fans in the basic structure of the industry.

Am I trying to pick a fight in all of this? Not really. I'm trying to communicate my position publicly. If that's picking a fight, so is attacking downloaders in a blog post.

[davewhitaker]

Nah, that would be vain of me. I mean, it's not like Peter David reads these forums and is going to reply to the post.

Uhm... you do realize don't you that's EXACTLY what DID happen??

[Snowspinner]

Uhm... you do realize don't you that's EXACTLY what DID happen??

Alas, poor irony. I knew him, Horatio.

[Dard]

Am I trying to pick a fight in all of this? Not really. I'm trying to communicate my position publicly. If that's picking a fight, so is attacking downloaders in a blog post.

If you look around in comic forums you will notice these arguments have been brought up in a multitude of topics before.
Whether or not they are vaild is irrelevant, because the only thing they do for sure is taking over discussion threads and turns them off-topic.

So what you did was communicating an OFF-TOPIC position publicly in order to hijack a thread, which is in any means picking up a fight.
A blog post doesn't necessarily do this. So please, write your opinion in a thread about torrents or in response to a blog.

You see, I wanted to write something about Fallen Angel and already found the thread ruined.

Anyway, I just want to say that while I loved Fallen Angel (although I thought the last arc wasn't exactly the best, mostly because it was too long) I am a little sceptical if you should continue.
It's not because this is some sort of crossover. The Shi crossover for example was really great, and that surprised me. No, as I understand it, it is a crossover with a supporting character from the comic adaption of a spin-off series of a television series that pretty much got on my nerves very soon.

I'm just think that this better be *very* good to make me interested again.

[Deathstroke]

I can't wait...I've been reading this magnificent title from the start and I can't wait for more!

I hope that when the New England Fan Experience (formerly United Fan Con) comes back around in November, that PAD is an invited guest and I can bring my #1 to get signed.

It's gonna be yet another thrilling, wild and exciting ride with Fallen Angel!

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Sure it makes sense. He's trying to pick a fight. Won't work, but that's what he's trying to do.

PAD

I kind of wondered.

No, I can get torrents of the old stuff easily. I assume. I haven't looked, since I have it all now in paper, but I'd be shocked if no torrents of Fallen Angel existed.

The point, for me, is an ethical one. I got into Fallen Angel via piracy. I think I made a rational decision given the circumstances - a book that was praised for its complex plotting was eight issues into its run. No trade existed. I couldn't easily get the back issues. I was interested in the book. I got scans of issues 1-8, liked them, and bought the remainder of the run. The alternatives were "jump into the book mid-plot arc and with no prior knowledge" or "don't buy the book." I picked the route that seemed most likely to make me keep buying the book, and I kept buying the book.

Ok this part doesn't make any sense. You seemed to enjoy the title after scanning those 1st 8 issues. You pulled it each month soon after. There isn't anymore scans you could possibly find of it as a series. Then a new one starts , but gosh darn it...to make a stand on scans that made you like the series , its not gonna be bought ! Even though you liked it and all. But for being against online comic scans...your gonna make a stand to drop a series you claim to like.

I'm not asking for a thank you note from PAD or anything. But on the other hand, to me this goes both ways. I am an active comics fan with a large pull account that, until this dust-up, contained three titles by Peter David. I also have downloaded a significant amount of comics. He can't have it both ways here - he can have my money, or he can cast downloaders out.

I think he's in the school of "who cares" to be honest. I mean if you enjoy the comics of Peter David , buy them and enjoy them. There are tons of comics I wish I could buy now. But I can't do to a slim , slippin budget. I don't go online to scans since I feel I'm cheating the creators out in a way.

I just don't get this... if someone enjoys a comic a creator does...it seems like they'd enjoy buying them. No matter what stance or what thing they believe. I heard Ethan Van Sciver has some right wing views , but I love his art work. Doesn't mean I'm gonna go out and demand Sciver become a Left Winger .

And, fwiw, I've not dropped X-Factor or Wolverine: First Class, both of which I picked up without torrenting prior issues. And unless PAD blasts torrenters as tainted clear through, I have no plans to drop those. But PAD actively blasted people who get into a comic the way I got into Fallen Angel.

Which is his right as a creator to voice his problems he has with the industry. PAD or anyone can voice their problems and solutions the way they see fit. Right now , with small comics like Fallen Angel and his Marvel work needing monthly sales , this is something he believes in.

If you enjoy his work and support Fallen Angel monthly , as long as he enertains you each month....that should be the key thing. If he doesn't...sure drop the book. But the whole dropping a book because a creator has a stance I don't like is kinda....lame.

Honestly, more than anything, I wish the experiment could be run - if everyone who got into Fallen Angel through means like mine (reading copies they don't own) dropped the book, and everyone who has been following the book via illegal downloads added it, what would sales do.

I don't know. I can pretty much say that there are thousands of books in torrents and many are downloaded each day. Maybe its the price tag on these things that are making the fanbase turn to piracy.

Of course Marvel.com does have comics up you can buy and read online. And they do sell those massive collections of Hulk , Daredevil , FF , X-Men and Civil War . Those are cool and I could see people buying them.

My guess is they'd drop, because I think FA hits a smarter comics audience that is devoted to the medium, and wants good books to succeed. And so I don't think people who like FA are people who would screw it.

Mind you, I suspect X-Factor would drop if the same test were applied to it.

I don't think illegal downloading will ever drop. Its always gonna be out there in some form and people for the most part will always want something "Free" before they have to pay for it. Look at the music industry and how downloading has changed some things involving sales.

Comics is a smaller industry and as much as many say the previews and scans made them buy the comics. There is a bigger crowd who likely haven't as sales have showed. And thats sad since monthly comics need the buys .

[kozmo]

Remember the 60's band "The Move?" -- "come and take a ride on my omnibus..."

The Fallen Angel (and Desperadoes) Omnibus is an incredibly strong product. It's a brick!! Most omnibi these days are B&W (for obvious economic reasons), but this is in full bleed color, and the price is about $1 an issue, less if you get it at a discount from Amazon or some other retailer. I pre-ordered mine and got it for something like $15.

I have no idea how IDW or the creators were able to do this pricepoint, but it impressed the heck out of me -- especially coming from IDW which has always had higher pricepoints.

of course, we're still missing the rest of the DC issues and apparently about a dozen of the IDW issues, but if the sales on this omnibus are what they should be, there's hope to get those back in print too.

[MartinRedmond]

I got into comics via torrenting too. In the late 70s / early 80s, I downloaded tons of copies I didn't pay for from my mom, dad, elder family, babysitters etc.