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  1. #61
    Senior Member End of Time's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howyadoin View Post
    No offense, but that was incredibly vague, and a lot of it reads like meaningless semantics (the bit about teaching at a highschool, for instance).
    That's why I sent him a far more detailed PM.

    I'm not going to spill all the details here, because this isn't the place to discuss them, since the details are a lot more specific. Nobody is going to be helped by knowing just exactly how much I'm making on the current project I'm involved in. Since the project isn't public, it's also not going to be something people on the other side of the planet, or in Pro's case country, are going to be able to participate in.

    So I gave out the most general advice I could about my current situation. I got my project through people in the world of art. People who aren't artists themselves, but who work with them nonetheless. Like the people who own a gallery, or who run an art-deposit, or a store, or who work for a school, or the government.

    The differences between where Pro and I are and where you are, I reckon it's America, could be considered almost monumental.

    Hence the PM, and if he wants to know all the details, or my salary, he can ask me in a PM... which I'll answer in detail, save for the salary question, I'm Dutch and we don't ever talk about exact numbers.
    Last edited by End of Time; 04-09-2009 at 02:28 PM.
    I went and made a webcomic...
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  2. #62
    is for Murder Gene M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pro View Post
    Anyone know any fast ways to make money with art?
    Desperate for money but waiting around for potential clients to react to the rates I quote is taking too long right now for my taste, especially when most assignments won't pan out anyway. Either they don't like the rates, they found someone else or they cancel the project half way through. Need money today instead of tomorrow.
    Get a job working on the docks? That's what I did.
    I'm doing a drawing for every DMAX thread!

    Most recent drawing: Longshot

  3. #63
    The Notorious BIB mattbib's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by End of Time View Post
    ...I'm Dutch and we don't ever talk about exact numbers.
    I can vouch for that, I work for ING.

  4. #64
    working class villain starkoryan81's Avatar
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    I just finished reading Ender's Game. I loved it. I wish this library had the next book...Speaker for the Dead, it's called.

  5. #65
    The Hawk of New York LewMoxinsghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howyadoin View Post
    Ouch, that hurts. And yeah, spec work is almost always a scam, in my experience.
    What is considered spec work? (and how do I get in on that gravy train?) :)
    Last edited by LewMoxinsghost; 04-09-2009 at 04:19 PM.

  6. #66
    Member crazyredlady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starkoryan81 View Post
    This is really neither here nor there, but it reminded me.
    I read a great tip in one of Scott McCloud's books: When searching for brushes, bring a little bit of water (like in a film container) into the art store with you, soak a brush your interested in and flick it to see how it shapes. If the dang thing forks, avoid it like the plague. You should also be able to tell if it will give you the point you need when it's dipped in ink. Brushes are expensive, but a trusty one can last a looong time.
    Thanks for the tip, I'll keep that in mind next time I go in with a significant amount of money....I suppose it wouldn't hurt to ask either. The local art store is great, they couldn't give me squat for advice about the CMYK colors in Prismacolor markers, but if they can help you, they give you their all

  7. #67
    Member crazyredlady's Avatar
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    btw, Lew, the chops have had a rather good season, just to let you know

  8. #68
    The Notorious BIB mattbib's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starkoryan81 View Post
    I just finished reading Ender's Game. I loved it. I wish this library had the next book...Speaker for the Dead, it's called.
    I'll probably check it out eventually. I'm about a month behind on my books.

    I also want to read the next Thursday Next novel on my list (The Well of Lost Plots). I started reading them several months back, based on an old CBRunway design atoningunifex did.

  9. #69
    internet pope howyadoin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LewMoxinsghost View Post
    What is considered spec work?
    "Please do this work for us. We don't have any money right now, but if we start turning a profit at some point in the future, there might be some for you then."
    howyadoin?
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  10. #70
    Senior Member End of Time's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starkoryan81 View Post
    I just finished reading Ender's Game. I loved it. I wish this library had the next book...Speaker for the Dead, it's called.

    Speaker for the Dead is a good book... but it isn't a proper sequel if you ask me. My biggest complaint against is just that. It's an excellent book in its own right, but it isn't a sequel to Ender's Game, it's a completely different entity.

    Of course, I haven't read any of Card's works since I discovered the man is a raging homophobe.
    I went and made a webcomic...
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  11. #71
    internet pope howyadoin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by End of Time View Post
    Of course, I haven't read any of Card's works since I discovered the man is a raging homophobe.
    Yeah, it's pretty hard to get past that.

    Plus, if the Alvin Maker books are any indication, every successive Ender book must be worst than the last, too.
    howyadoin?
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  12. #72
    Where the sun don't shine Pro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howyadoin View Post
    "Please do this work for us. We don't have any money right now, but if we start turning a profit at some point in the future, there might be some for you then."
    In my case it was:

    "We almost got a contract but we're taking 8 months to hammer out the details and you got 9 months to finish the project and you'll need that time to get it done".

  13. #73
    The Hawk of New York LewMoxinsghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howyadoin View Post
    "Please do this work for us. We don't have any money right now, but if we start turning a profit at some point in the future, there might be some for you then."
    Quote Originally Posted by Pro View Post
    In my case it was:

    "We almost got a contract but we're taking 8 months to hammer out the details and you got 9 months to finish the project and you'll need that time to get it done".
    This makes me feel a little douchy here, because I've offered a similar deal in the past for my own project. (as far as Howy's definition goes.) I don't think that it can't work, but I do realize this is incredibly naive thinking. There has to be an example of it working somewhere, but I guess it would have to be with a group you totally trust even more than 100%. It makes me reconsider my approach though, because honestly I am tired of treading water with it. I just don't want the thing to suck or not do well commercially, and I'm willing to wait years until I figure it out exactly what is required from me. But I think a lot of what is required of me is a willingness to invest in the project in increasing increments. Finance is hard on us liberal arts majors.

    In Pro's case, if I understand correctly, that contract sounds really thoughtless on their part. They are basically asking you to do eight months of work in one month's time, which is obviously not possible for anyone to do. That kind of faith from them has got to do wonders for your ego though.

    Quote Originally Posted by crazyredlady View Post
    btw, Lew, the chops have had a rather good season, just to let you know
    Huh? I must've missed something. I sincerely do not understand what you are talking about. Care to explain?
    Last edited by LewMoxinsghost; 04-10-2009 at 09:13 AM.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by howyadoin View Post
    Yeah, it's pretty hard to get past that.

    Plus, if the Alvin Maker books are any indication, every successive Ender book must be worst than the last, too.
    You're right to a degree, the book that follow Ender get worse as they go, but i enjoyed the books that follow Bean all the way through.

    After reading Ender's Shadow, Shadow of the Hegemon, Shadow Puppets, Ender's Game, First Meetings, Speaker for the Dead, and Xenocide (in that order), I started reading Children of the Mind, and quit 12 pages before the end because of how ridiculously stupid it had gotten and I realized I was forcing myself through it.

  15. #75
    Where the sun don't shine Pro's Avatar
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    They are basically asking you to do eight months of work in one month's time, which is obviously not possible for anyone to do.
    Well not exactly, basically we started working while contract negotiations were still ongoing because we'd be sure to lose the project if we waited until the negotiations were completed and since this was a $150000,- project we went ahead. There simply wouldn't be enough time if we hadn't.
    Contract negotiations went slow because there was us, the game company who developed the game, the game publisher and the game developer on whose game engine the game was based on, all haggling on who was going to pay for what.

    We'd get paid by milestone, meaning if part of the project was done we'd get that paid. But they were very slow with approving stuff because it had to go through several channels: the original author on who's work the game was based, the game developer and the game publisher, before something was officially declared finished and my part wasn't approved yet when internal office trouble ended the project. So I didn't get paid even though I did a lot of work.

    So i learned, being paid by milestone? Not a good way to work.
    Last edited by Pro; 04-10-2009 at 01:08 PM.

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