Creators and Readers

[Corrina]

We've had quite a few established creators show up on this board recently. We also have our own YABS regular contingent of crazy talented people.

The thing is, we treat our regular YABS creators way better than the others. Peter David, Mike Norton, Dwayne McDuffie, Cameron Stewart, Kurt Busiek, Mark Waid.....they've all been here recently. (And I bet I've missed a few.)

And that should be cool, it should be a signal to engage in, ya know, dialogue about stuff. Writing, stories, whatever.

But they're treated differently than the regular YABS creators.

Now, Peter David was here about something other than his work, that was pretty damn controversial and I'll give you that.

But see, I figure unless someone is an obvious troll (Okay, or yet another person wanting to take digs at the WIR MANIFESTO!) they should be treated the same as regular posters. Because they're here, so they're posters as well.

Now I'm not saying that we shouldn't say "you know, I'm really not enjoying your JLA story, Dwayne." I'm saying that maybe it wouldn't hurt to tone down the "I think your story sucks and blankety blank fig newton" and instead try to approach it in the same way we'd talk about Gail's work.

Because when we don't like Gail's stuff, we say so. But we don't say "this is a steaming pile of shit." We say "this, this is not working for me here. I'm not buying Diana does X, I think the plot is confusing, and I just am not cool with punching gorillas off waterfalls okay???!!"

So why we do have to resort to the different tone with other creators? Especially when it's become damn clear there are a lot of creators who write the books we read either hanging out here on CBR or on YABS specifically?

***And this is not me as moderator in the least. It's me noticing that, well, it's something I don't get, and why do we do that??

[KevinTBrown]

Corrina, obviously just speaking for myself here, but I try treat everyone equally. I speak my mind and I have no problems with anyone else speaking theirs. If I disagree with someone, I'll say so. If someone comes in with a chip on their shoulder, I'll probably respond in kind. If someone decides to jump into a heated debate, I'll treat them with the level of respect they either deserve, or give me or anyone else.

It doesn't matter what their job is.

However, while I know I'm not always successful, I try to not make it personal when commenting/critiquing someone's work. Since I've paid my money for the product, and there's a discussion already in progress I feel I'd like to join in on, I'll give my unedited opinion.

Yes, the tone can indeed be a little bit over the top. Some can easily cross the line and those offenders deserve a good hard "Gibbs slap". However, everyone must know that their work is not going to be universally liked or well received and hopefuly they're willing to read/listen to well thought out crticism of their work. But in no way should they ever have to deal with someone calling them names. That is inexcusable.

Of those that you mentioned, I've enjoyed many of their works, but not 100% of the time. If what they're currently doing is fantastic, I'll say so; if their current work is less than good, I'll also say so. It's not personal when I say I dislike it.

I certainly hope that the creators continue to show up here regularly. I do enjoy getting their insights on what they're doing, have done, and would like to do. But I'm going to treat them just like any other member of the board. They may be "famous", but they're still just folk.

[shrike]

They may be "famous", but they're still just folk.

I follow this line of thought as well, and trust me I have harped all over Gail when I've not been happy with her work.

I will add as hard as I come down on people and am the first to call them out, so to speak, I am ALSO usually the first to eat my words or give praise where it is warranted.

[Pink Bat Maxine]

Doublepost

[Pink Bat Maxine]

Oh honestly. The person who was rude to Dwayne apologized to him.

I once said something rude about A Scott Shaw project. He reacted, we discussed it, I gave him another try.

I'm not going to treat a creator with any more reverence than ANYONE else, and I think that's what this amounts to. My Grandmother used to tell me that if I were ever to meet the Queen of England not to kneel, but to shake her hand as an equal. If I'm not going to bow to the Queen, I'm not going to kiss ass, give a pass, or treat anyone different just because they're published in funny books. People are people. If they don't like my personality, than that just plain is what it is.

That goes for moderators too. You can ban me for it if you want.

[shrike]

Maxine felt so strongly about this she posted it TWICE.

[Joshua Pantalleresco]

As someone working on my own projects, I can appreciate the time, effort and sacrifice anyone makes in any project.

It doesn't mean I'm going to like it.

That said, I try not to be too personal about it. I've seen quite a bit of bashing on projects I thought didn't deserve it. And I don't think anyone should be bashed personally for any project. I always remember the effort that goes into work. I don't tend to treat that lightly.

However, that doesn't mean every creation is equal. There are books by Peter David I don't care for. There are books by Mark Waid I don't either. And I would tell them face to face any time. That said, I would never bash the person. Ad hominems never get anyone anywhere.

JP

[Jae Namkyoung]

I'm with Maxine here. I'm just gonna tell you how it is, to be quite honest. If someone comes on here to think that they're gonna get it handed to them on a silver platter they've got the wrong idea. Its a forum, you can't expect it to be all candy and jewels. ^_^

[shrike]

That said, I try not to be too personal about it. I've seen quite a bit of bashing on projects I thought didn't deserve it. And I don't think anyone should be bashed personally for any project. I always remember the effort that goes into work. I don't tend to treat that lightly.

Well that's just it.

I'm totally OK with calling out someone telling them their work is crap just as much as I'm OK telling them it's amazing. Heck, I get PAID to tell people that.

You are not going to hear me say, 'You know, you are one fat bastard and your kids are ugly' or 'God you must never get laid looking like you do' or 'Lordy lord I heard you had a small penis'. That's crossing a line.

I'm harsh on the product, I'm harsh on a person's body of work. I'm not slamming them on a personal level. I don't know any of them well enough to make those calls, and it takes it to a whole other level.

[Pink Bat Maxine]

Well that's just it.

I'm totally OK with calling out someone telling them their work is crap just as much as I'm OK telling them it's amazing. Heck, I get PAID to tell people that.

You are not going to hear me say, 'You know, you are one fat bastard and your kids are ugly' or 'God you must never get laid looking like you do' or 'Lordy lord I heard you had a small penis'. That's crossing a line.

I'm harsh on the product, I'm harsh on a person's body of work. I'm not slamming them on a personal level. I don't know any of them well enough to make those calls, and it takes it to a whole other level.

So we'll never forgive someone when they sincerely apologize, we're just gonna hold our noses up and pretend we're superior?

Everyone on this thread has been fucking rude to someone at some point, and we've all benefitted from other's forgiveness. Let's not any of us pretend we're saints. And let's afford others the second chances we'd like for ourselves.

[Jae Namkyoung]

So we'll never forgive someone when they sincerely apologize, we're just gonna hold our noses up and pretend we're superior?

Everyone on this thread has been fucking rude to someone at some point, and we've all benefitted from other's forgiveness. Let's not any of us pretend we're saints. And let's afford others the second chances we'd like ourselves.

Nicely put, I actually did see the apology but I stopped paying attention to that thread, after they went all ballistic on that guy.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I really try and be nice to everyone....creators as well. Since I feel that , if you treat me nice online ...I'll be as nice. Do onto others i my thinking. Thus far , Gail Simone , Chuck Dixon , Ron Marz , Mark Waid , Dan Slott and Kurt Busiek have been awesome to post back and forth with.

[Pink Bat Maxine]

Nicely put, I actually did see the apology but I stopped paying attention to that thread, after they went all ballistic on that guy.

The reactions were at least as over the top and out of line as the original comment. It was a huge clusterfuck dogpile. The person CLEARLY was sincere in his/her apology. Where was the grace to forgive?

I mean, I'm a total douchebag, and y'all forgive me for it!

[Corrina]

Maxine felt so strongly about this she posted it TWICE.

Jeez, I ain't banning anyone today.

That's for full moons.


And we don't treat all the creators the way we treat Gail when talking about her work. And, no, I'm not calling anyone out or bitching at anyone. I just noticed and wondered why. Do we just feel warmer toward Gail. i mean, I think that's likely, we're nicer to the people we're more familiar with.

But that doesn't mean we have to be over the top in dealing with people we're not familiar with. I've modded some fiction reader/writer forums and there's plenty of give and take and criticism without the over the top stuff. We just venting? Or treating creators like we'd treat, say a public figure that we hated? I mean, we jumped all over the Jane Goody thread as being too much and we didn't even know her.

But these guys are people. And they're posters. Not the same as say, Goody, or George W. Bush.

[Tien Long]

I posted this a couple of weeks ago in another thread. Here's what I had to say:

"As for the critical assessments I give on comics, I've definitely write a thread or two the message boards and sometimes there will be things I dislike or disagree with about a story. When I write a critique, however, I always, ALWAYS want to be cordial and courteous. To me, saying that a story sucks and stupid does not help. Even couching it in strong arguments and beliefs to me does not make such harsh criticisms any less harmful. Degrading someone and making them feel low does not help. I will be frank, honest, and aboveboard with the work, but I try to frame it in a very respectful, sympathetic, and non-hostile way. I'm here to voice my opinion, not to make enemies."

Just want to reiterate, even if frank and honest with the work, I don't like to be harsh or too hostile. I will be critical and analytical with a person's work, but above all, I will always, ALWAYS be polite and respectful.