Misogyny in comics: Overstated, Justified

**Jefferson l.o.b Sergeant** · 03-31-2009, 01:11 AM

Hello, I posted this over at Girl Wonder and I am interested in any possible responses here as well.

I was having a discussion about the issue of misogyny in comics and whether it was overstated or justified; when someone pointed out how badly flawed it is to discuss the issue when 98% of the participants in the conversation are male.

The criticism made sense and I decided to pose the question here for a broader perspective on the topic.

Here is the original post that I made.

I see people that readily decry Power Girl for her cleavage and costume and yet strongly endorse any range of Manga filled with fanservice on a routine basis.

I can't understand how the idea of spandex and cleavage equates to misogyny in the minds of some fans while fanservice is glossed over in their praise of manga.

Gail Simone's manifesto about the topic seemed like an opportunistic ploy of taking a great story in the KILLING JOKE and reducing it to misogyny with the " Cripple the bitch" story.

In the Women in Refrigerators manifesto the underpinning of her criticism of THE KILLING JOKE is the conversation that took place in the DC offices and the phrase " Cripple the Bitch" being used in reference to Barbara Gordon being shot.

The comment from an editor was supposed to paint the entire work in a misogynist light, not the context of the story which also had Commisioner Gordon stripped naked, brutalized and tortured by the Joker as well.

I look forward to hearing your opinions on the topic.

**BnL** · 03-31-2009, 03:56 AM

Oh look, another WiR thread!

Women in Refrigerators wasn't a manifesto, it was a list of incidents in superhero comics of women meeting grim fates. It didn't assign blame or motives, it just posed a question: What does this all mean? People can bring their own hangups to it, as you seem to have done by accusing Gail Simone of being an opportunist based on your own mischaracterization about what the site was about.

**Corrina** · 03-31-2009, 04:47 AM

Manifesto?

*You know what this thread needs?

KITTENS!

**Lester C.** · 03-31-2009, 05:26 AM

Originally Posted by Corrina

Manifesto?

*You know what this thread needs?

KITTENS!

Kittens which is a slag for the p word! You know the one.

Does your misogyny know no end Corrina.

**Arkaengel** · 03-31-2009, 05:51 AM

Looking for misogyny in a genre where the vast majority of creators are male, the vast majority of consumers are also male, and the archetypal story involves extreme violence being used to resolve conflicts...well, it strikes me as similar to going to the beach to look for sand.

There's a discussion to be had as to whether the misogyny is conscious or unconscious, but I don't think there's a discussion as to whether it's there or not.

**Agent Helix** · 03-31-2009, 05:52 AM

It's very conscious at times, such as the absolutely awful treatment of Ultimate Wasp.

**Chris Hansbrough** · 03-31-2009, 05:54 AM

Oh god not this again.......

**4thHorseman** · 03-31-2009, 06:02 AM

*walks in*

*walks out*

**Jae Namkyoung** · 03-31-2009, 06:08 AM

Geezus, didn't we just have one of these threads? (seriously Jefferson, we really did just have a topic that... well here Gail Simone, S6 and Double Standards click that, thanks).

I'm with Corrina lets make this about KITTIES! ^_^

**Arkaengel** · 03-31-2009, 06:12 AM

Originally Posted by Agent Helix

It's very conscious at times, such as the absolutely awful treatment of Ultimate Wasp.

Oh, certainly individual writers may have misogynistic attitudes and views that they're consciously expressing through their work. But I don't think the comics industry as a whole consciously sets out to put out products that express some fucked-up attitudes towards women (and gays, and people who aren't white, and...) - I think that just happens as a result of the non-representative nature of the people making comics.

It's not like porn, where the entire industry is based on commodifying female sexuality - there's no inherent reason why comics should descend into misogyny and sexism as often as they do. So it's fixable.

(I note that I've been using "comics" where I should be using "superhero comics".)

**Grazzt** · 03-31-2009, 06:12 AM

For Corrina and Jae:

**bringthenoise** · 03-31-2009, 06:12 AM

Hey, everyone likes kitties, no one likes bollocks, I go with kittens!

**Arkaengel** · 03-31-2009, 06:15 AM

Originally Posted by Jae Namkyoung

I'm with Corrina lets make this about KITTIES! ^_^

Okay. Are kittens that wake one up in the middle of the night misogynistic, misandrist, misanthropic or just misunderstood?

**Shisho** · 03-31-2009, 06:16 AM

Guys, guys, come on. Don't scare away the newbie just because he didn't know we had this topic already. I'd like to think YABS welcomes new blood and new opinions. Just because we've had some sneaky trolls in the past doesn't mean every new poster is a sneaky troll.

Personally, I think misogyny is a very strong word. I think the comic industry in general suffers from a chronic sickness called "lazy writing," and the fact that many women characters are written and/or treated badly in certain storylines is more a symptom of bad writing than actual malicious intent.

And welcome to the forum, new people!