Is Dark Avengers a glorified limited series?

[timomcshade]

This is just a simple question based off of info we know. It has nothing to do with the creative team. Dark Avengers launched as the core title for Dark Reign. When Dark Reign ends at the end of the year what happens to Dark Avengers? It will only be to issue 12 by that time? Is it going to become a 2nd Thunderbolts title(stop right there about the jokes that is a Thunderbolts title) or is it going to adapt? Thoughts?

[Seraku]

Bendis said Dark Avengers will outlast Dark Reign

[Omega Alpha]

It can still exist after Dark Reign, it depends on Osborn's position. If he's still as head of HAMMER or he was removed, but managed to retain a lot of influence, the team can still exist.

Or of course it can exist, but with the structure changed.

[$5 Milkshake]

I've wondered this as well. I really hope being so event tied doesnt kill this awesome book, I'm hoping it will adapt.

[Omega Alpha]

I'm thinking the book as it is will continue until the 2010 big crossover (whatever that is). Those first issues were the ones to establish them as the big superhero team in the eyes of the public, and Osborn as their leader and #1 hero of the MU (again, in the public's eyes). Norman is also being established as a nearly unstoppable force at this point, even people like Doom are willing to let him do what he wants because no one has the power to stop it.

And then comes the DA/UXM crossover; to me it will end with Osborn getting a severe beatdown and his Avengers defeated by the X-men, which will begin to change things: no one will see him as unstoppable anymore, because he has been stopped, and not by villains, but by HEROES. That defeat will damage Osborn's popularity and credibility, and that will make people begin to investigate the members of his team more. Someone like Ares or Marvel Boy will begin to question him and his goals, specially since fighting the X-men will mean having to defeat teenagers; I can't see those two happily kicking Pixie's ass like it was ordinary business.

A defeat will also let people like Doom and Namor more confident to make their next moves, because Osborn has shown vulnerability, and also make heroes who gave up fighting the government realizing they can win.

[GHalecki]

I think that the concept really doesn't have much staying power. Granted, the basic concept in the current setting of the MU can provide several possible very good stories. But the "bad guys posing as superheroes" think was done, and done very well, in Thunderbolts. At some point that is going to wear thing. Either the villians actually turn good (so not going to happen in the case of several of them) or they stop impersonating the Avengers, because it is only a matter of time before it gets out, when virtually every superhero out there KNOWS that they are imposters anyway. They tell their friends, who tell their friends, etc. The only catch that could give it more life after the initial luster wears off would be to bring in a SECOND group of imposters when the first group is blowing it's cover. I am sure that they could bring in someone to impersonate the Black Knight, Black Widow, Hercules, Dr Druid, Tigra, Living Lightning, Captain Marvel, and other Avengers with less public profiles than the ones that they are using now.

[StoneGold]

Go back to the mid-90s. People asked the exact same question about Thunderbolts.

[Will.S]

It can still exist after Dark Reign, it depends on Osborn's position. If he's still as head of HAMMER or he was removed, but managed to retain a lot of influence, the team can still exist.

Or of course it can exist, but with the structure changed.

Pretty much.

I've also wondered how the book will go on once Norman is out of the picture but one can easily substitute Zemo in his place and it will still continue the theme of the book.

[Dagger]

Go back to the mid-90s. People asked the exact same question about Thunderbolts.

Yeah, but do you see these guys actually trying to reform?

[GHalecki]

Go back to the mid-90s. People asked the exact same question about Thunderbolts.

That is a VERY GOOD point, but you are comparing apples and oranges though.

Thunderbolts wasn't Thunderbolt Avengers. It was a completely self contained concept. Once the "villians pretending to be heroes" angle was played through, it had the freedom to change course and still be the Thunderbolts, because Thunderbolts was defined by whatever the book was.

Dark Avengers is tied into the concept of the Avengers, at least by the name of it. There is at least some reason to have all of these books with the name Avengers on it. They are all at least somewhat related on some level. If the villians stop pretending to be the Avengers, what is the point of calling them Dark Avengers. They might be dark, but they won't be Avengers, or even PRETENDING to be Avengers any more. They might continue the book under a diferent name, focusing on these villians that USED to be pretending to be the Avengers. But it won't be Dark Avengers any more.

It would be like having a book called the Fabulous X-Men, and then slowly phasing out the mutant members and replacing them with non mutants. Once it becomes a book about something that is decidedly not X-Men, it loses any reason to be an X-Men book. The only reason to keep calling them X- anything would be just a cheap ploy to draw off from the X franchise because the book couldn't survive on it's own merit.

The same thing goes with the Dark Avengers. The Avengers tag has some major pull to it. I bet that if the New Avengers was restarted with the same charachters, same creative staff, and continued the same storylines, as the New Defenders or New Champions, then after the initial bump the sales would drop by about 30% of the numbers that they are doing right now.

[StoneGold]

Yeah, but do you see these guys actually trying to reform?

No, but I didn't see the Tbolts as reforming by their third issue, either.


And really, yeah, I can see Captain Marvel, Ares and Sentry reforming. But not that they necessarily should. My point was more that the first 12 issues of Tbolts wasn't about them reforming. The core concept of DA might change as well.

[StoneGold]

That is a VERY GOOD point, but you are comparing apples and oranges though.

Thunderbolts wasn't Thunderbolt Avengers. It was a completely self contained concept. Once the "villians pretending to be heroes" angle was played through, it had the freedom to change course and still be the Thunderbolts, because Thunderbolts was defined by whatever the book was.

Dark Avengers is tied into the concept of the Avengers, at least by the name of it. There is at least some reason to have all of these books with the name Avengers on it. They are all at least somewhat related on some level. If the villians stop pretending to be the Avengers, what is the point of calling them Dark Avengers. They might be dark, but they won't be Avengers, or even PRETENDING to be Avengers any more. They might continue the book under a diferent name, focusing on these villians that USED to be pretending to be the Avengers. But it won't be Dark Avengers any more.

It would be like having a book called the Fabulous X-Men, and then slowly phasing out the mutant members and replacing them with non mutants. Once it becomes a book about something that is decidedly not X-Men, it loses any reason to be an X-Men book. The only reason to keep calling them X- anything would be just a cheap ploy to draw off from the X franchise because the book couldn't survive on it's own merit.

The same thing goes with the Dark Avengers. The Avengers tag has some major pull to it. I bet that if the New Avengers was restarted with the same charachters, same creative staff, and continued the same storylines, as the New Defenders or New Champions, then after the initial bump the sales would drop by about 30% of the numbers that they are doing right now.

So the Masters of Evil are renamed the Dark Avengers. Don't see that big a deal.

[Patrick Hultquist]

After Dark Reign is over, Dark Avengers will probably be retitled, retooled, and its concept will be repackaged.

[Beast]

I can't see those two happily kicking Pixie's ass like it was ordinary business.

I don't know. Have you seen Pixie lately? She deserves the ass kicking.

[XPac]

If the book sells, there's no reason in the world for marvel to make it limited.