Is any one else tired of crossovers?

[DDM]

I tend to disagree but only because i find much of the DC universe impossible to understand without ten years ocntinuity knowledge...i was raised on marvel and with no knowledge of DC cant break in.

Go buy all the Who's Who in the DC Universe #1-26. I got into comics around this time & bought the books on the newsstand. The DC Universe is about as complex as the Marvel Universe, but each company is different in their own right.

[DDM]

My issue with them at this point is that they seemingly attempt to destroy a status quo that a) doesn't exist within the context of the story because everything is destroyed over and over, and b) doesn't destroy the status quo the icon has because it potentially removes his recognition and loss of sales.

Your premise comes back to Marvel's current contempt for continuity. At some point, Marvel is going to repeat various storylines in other books due to lack of creativity & lack of knowledge of the Marvel Universe history.

[DDM]

I posted this in the Declining thread that ED closed... but it's relevant here as well...

So explain to me how during DC's BIG continuity pandering... I mean revolution... simple errors like someone as big as the Penguin and his current location (as shown in the Villains United One Shot) get overlooked?

And do you really, and HONESTLY and TRUELY feel continuity should be more important than the story?

For example if Character X in a comic 40 YEARS ago said he prefered red heads and subsequent writers went with that idea that, Character X should NEVER date a blonde... because it's ALWAYS been a red head?

There IS no REAL substancial change in comics either... Superman dead? Not anymore. Azrael replacing Batman? Fixed. Hell, Green Lantern (Hal), Green Arrow (Ollie), Hourman, Hawkman, Supergirl etc. are ALL back... reverting to what they were before they died.

The only REAL massive change was Crisis... and DC has (thus far) undone it with the return of the Multiverse (granted there's still issue 7 to come). Zero Hour was suppose to "fix" all the mistakes of the oiginal Crisis... but it just made it worse.

And you don't think DC's ideas are big on HYPE??? Look at dentity Crisis, followed by Countdown followed by Infinite Crisis. ype. Hype. And more HYPE.

I will admit that they are all part of one HUGE MASSIVE storyline... but as Zombienorthstar pointed out, that's good for us old timers with years of experience in the DCU. Marvel does their big hype driven stories... but it's not all mandatory nor do you have to go in knowing 20 years worth of stuff.

I think what DC's doing is short sighted... they seem to be pandering to the aging existing fanbase instead of trying to welcome new readers like Zombienorthstar.

Hal Jordan still existed as Parallax. He still paid for his sins. Even in the current Green Lantern series, Parallax is still in the background. The continuity did not suffer because it is acknowledged; other writers used this continuity to explain away Parallax. You may not like the explaination, but there the story is.

Marvel is ignoring the Scarlet Witch's development completely. Suddenly, Wanda has always been insane, despite evidence to the contrary to show her she is the one of the most stable Avengers. The Scarlet Witch mutant powers is to affect probability--not alter reality. True, she can seemingly alter reality, yet this is after multiple hex spheres. Altering probability is not the same as changing pennies into a horde of demons. Marvel is basically a ship with too many captains & no one is leading the ship in a relevent direction.

DC has a definite direction; whereas, Marvel is just publishing anything & everything to see what sticks. Marvel is desperate.

[Doom Hammer]

Your premise comes back to Marvel's current contempt for continuity. At some point, Marvel is going to repeat various storylines in other books due to lack of creativity & lack of knowledge of the Marvel Universe history.

Marvel has no contempt for continuity. The man in charge just so happens to believe, much like I do, that a good story is more important than the inclusion of an encyclopedic number of random MU continuity references and facts.

[Jake V]

Marvel has a contempt for continuity? Well then, so do I. More comics for me to buy then. I'll pick up whatever slack DDM leaves.

[The Shadow]

Marvel has no contempt for continuity. The man in charge just so happens to believe, much like I do, that a good story is more important than the inclusion of an encyclopedic number of random MU continuity references and facts.

I'm with you.

DDM completely ignored my points and questions on this matter in a post or 3 above. But I agtee that the story should be what matters most!

[Jake V]

I'm with you.

DDM completely ignored my points and questions on this matter in a post or 3 above. But I agtee that the story should be what matters most!

Thats what DDM does! he's been repeating the same tired "the sky is falling" rant for the past 3 years (that I'm aware of) and nothing he's ever predicted has come true.

[jadegiant77]

That's why I'm not buying Civil War or any of the crossovers, even from the titles on my pull list. I must be getting old and cranky, but enough's enough already.

Join the club. There are too many of them going on at one time and too many parts! Annihilation has four minis then a wrap-up series, Civil War has the regular seven issue series, three minis(Civil War: X-Men, Young Avengers/Runaways, Frontline) and multiple tie-in issues...Why are these Event books back in vogue? What is this, 1992?

UGH. I am not buying all of those. Give me a done-in-one book anyday(I can take multi-part stories in books I regularly buy, however).

[mattspideyrocks!]

DC has a definite direction; whereas, Marvel is just publishing anything & everything to see what sticks. Marvel is desperate.

Yes and that's why Marvel is one of the top companies around. Convincing argument as usual. You are absolutely right. They never pay any attention to any continuity that occurs. That's why now Spidey has been bitten by a radioactive kangaroo and Captain America actually drank cherry Koolaid. Oh and Iron Man is the newest Terminator. Man oh man are things screwed up over here at Marvel. Certainly better over at DC. Everything is obviously perfect over there. :rolleyes:

[Linguini]

W/e I personally enjoy all these huge events and crossovers, their amazing and intruiging in my opinion.

[The Shadow]

Join the club. There are too many of them going on at one time and too many parts! Annihilation has four minis then a wrap-up series, Civil War has the regular seven issue series, three minis(Civil War: X-Men, Young Avengers/Runaways, Frontline) and multiple tie-in issues...Why are these Event books back in vogue? What is this, 1992?

Don't buy them all... only get the ones that appeal to you.

I'm only getting the main mini and any books that happen to crossover into titles I already get.

[Lorendiac]

Thats what DDM does! he's been repeating the same tired "the sky is falling" rant for the past 3 years (that I'm aware of) and nothing he's ever predicted has come true.

Well, unless he has specifically committed himself to a timetable for when the sky will fall ("On or before the First of May, 2006" for instance), then can't he just sit back and say calmly that we should just wait?

Robert A. Heinlein wrote an article in 1950 in which he made several sweeping predictions regarding future developments.

In 1965, he wrote a sequel article as a 15-year-update on whether or not he thought he had correctly predicted some growing trends back in 1950.

In 1980, for a book collection of various bits of short fiction and nonfiction which he had done over the years, he did another 15-year update on his original predictions (with the 1950 and 1965 stuff reprinted so that we could see exactly what he had originally said). In some commentary at the end, I believe he named three or four predictions where he admitted he was probably wrong.

He then added that a big part of his problem there was that in each case he had specifically committed himself to a certain deadline, such as "within the next thirty years" or "by the year 2000" or whatever. Heinlein pointed out that if he had been more careful, even 30 years after the fact he could still claim to be batting a thousand on his predictions -- potentially, in the long run. "Okay, so that one hasn't happened yet -- but have a little patience! It's bound to happen that way sooner or later!" :)

[Cephus]

Speculation my friend.

No, observation.

And it's not just Marvel. DC is hammering out the big events one after another as well. Let's call a spade a spade here.

Never said DC wasn't just as bad. In fact, I just stopped reading every mainline DC book I had (which wasn't many, I don't particularly care for the iconicism at DC and never have).

Can I ask you a question (or two) Cephus?

That's why we're here, isn't it?

Your disdain for Marvel, DC and the current state of comics is eveident in every single post you make. Why do you keep reading anything new? Why not just just buy back issues of the era's you prefer?

There are a couple of decent comics out there that I do enjoy, but I think that Marvel and DC are both going down the wrong path and taking the short-term view that essentially killed them in the 90s, rather than trying to rebuild the industry into something vibrant with long-term financial security. Because the industry as a whole survives only so long as Marvel and DC do (unfortunately), they're the ones we have to focus on. And I've already read all the back issues, I've been collecting since the early 70s.

Why do you keep posting in a comic forum that mainly focuses on new issues when all you do is spew bile and negativity? And lastly (I promise) ... how can you comment on the quality of current Marvel (and possibly DC) books if you aren't actually reading them?

I happen to like the graphic storytelling format, but I don't like what they're doing with it at the moment. There's a vast potential that is being untapped because people like Joe Quesada are taking a shallow view that the fans are idiots and will take any garbage he slops out. Marvel is making just enough money at it to keep the comics side going, even though they're making most of their money through movie licenses and merchandizing. I'd like to see the comics side leading the way, rather than just being a testbed for potential movie scripts.

How can I comment on the books? Who says I haven't read them? It's the quality, or lack thereof, that has driven me away from them in the recent past, along with the ideas that keep popping up over and over and you certainly don't need to read the book to know how ridiculous a lot of it is. The comic book market has changed dramatically over the past 20 years, but Marvel and DC are still largely catering to an audience that no longer exists. It's not kids that are reading comics today, it's adults with jobs and families and responsibilities. That's why Supreme Power did so well at the beginning, because it catered directly to adult readers, not just with the f-bombs and nudity, but with a more indepth story that didn't take the rosy, happy worldview that so many others have traditionally taken. Yes, these may be stories about super-powered people, but I want more realism and logic and rationality in my stories than "everyone who has a power puts on spandex and flies around the city fighting crime". That's something for 12-year olds and I haven't been 12 in a long, long time.

[Lorendiac]

This reminds me: A few weeks ago, I said in another thread that the "Ultimates" line of Marvel titles is all set in its own shared universe, but Marvel has never actually done a 24-part crossover in that universe, with 8 titles each sacrificing 3 monthly issues to the same great big epic crossover so that the reader of one of those titles will have to buy all 24 issues if he wants to properly understand just what the heck is happening to his favorite "Ultimate" heroes.

So the question is: How long will this last? Anyone think that sooner or later Marvel's Ultimate Universe will start copying the worst habits of the regular Marvel Universe? With crossovers stretching out across eight titles at once? :(

[Faded]

Well said.

Anyway, with Civil War to come out in two days, I'm thinking about not picking it up now. Its all or nothing at this point--I buy the first issue I'll probably buy them all.

It seems like it'll be an authentic story rather than a 'let me shake this up for the sake of a shake up' like House of M was.

In the end, its always the characters that I like that end up getting screwed in crossovers so I suppose my money should go elsewhere.

Okay okay...I won't read Civil War but I'll probably get Civil: War X-Men and Young Avengers/Runaways because I love them. :)