CBR: Tim Seeley on Cheap Comics

[CBR News]

“Hack/Slash� creator Tim Seeley conducted an informal survey of retailers to
study the feasibility of cheaper comics in the age of $3.99 superhero titles. CBR
News spoke with Seeley about the results of his study.


Full article here.

[Seraphex]

“Hack/Slash� creator Tim Seeley conducted an informal survey of retailers to
study the feasibility of cheaper comics in the age of $3.99 superhero titles. CBR
News spoke with Seeley about the results of his study.


Full article here.

What this article completely misses the boat on is "perceived worth."

Fraction mentioned that he would have put Casanova out in a slicker format if he had to do it again, that using lower quality paper and making the book cheaper hurt sales more than it helped. Why? Because people thought "cheaper" equaled "less value."

Making comic books cheaper won't help the business end of things. The ever-sticky issue is how to convince customers that the product is worth the price on the cover.

If DC and Marvel up the price of their books, the perceived worth should go up as well...but it hasn't.

And therein lies the big rub.

[jwichmann]

i've long been annoyed by the rising price of comics, especially for a lot of stuff i otherwise consider the shlock books (ie crappy art, story etc) when your paying as much as a 200page magazine or book it starts to make you wonder...
i get the whole price reflects the creation of the book (paying the artist, inker, writer, colorist...) but it makes you wonder if some companies can produce a book for less, ship a smaller quantity of books and still stay in business, how can marvel justify doubling the price, when in some cases they're possibly selling ten times the volume (the more you produce, the cheaper it gets)
at what point does pairing the awesomest artist, writer, colorist etc month after month start to wear on the wallet?,
cause there is always another awesome creative team coming along (just not really at DC lol)

-J.

[astrobrain]

Tim Seely just sold himself in my store. I will a) help him however he wants) and b) carry and push his books until I can't anymore.

The $3.99 price point is a sign of impending doom that HAS to be stopped. (Yeah, it's overly dramatic, but this is comics...)

By the by, I sell the crap out of cheap trade paperbacks printed on lower-quality paper. I've noticed Vertigo has started printing the first tpb in the series of tpbs on cheap paper and selling them at $9.99. These sell amazingly well. Granted, the chances they're taking a loss, or even just breaking even, on printing costs is high, but the repeat business more than makes up for it.
(This is completely unscientific and I have no facts besides my own observations to back this up.) Should the industry use Vertigo as a model for how to do business? Probably not. What works for Vertigo probably wouldn't work for Marvel. But, as usual, they are ahead of the game and could teach other publishers a thing or two.

My two cents. Spend 'em however you see fit.

[TexasZombie]

I actually prefer the matte finish paper (I'm assuming its the cheaper stuff) as opposed to the glossy paper thats in most comics today...the glossy stuff is actually really hard to read under a lamp of any kind as the glare is atrocious. I'm always having to tilt my head weird or move the book around as I read but it's hard to absorb a page this way...really picky I know but there's definitely merit in the convenience and ease of the reading process.

[yetibreath]

A western 'phone-book' style anthology sounds nice, if somebody could buy a cheap 'ol printing press. But have it completely non-superhero just to give it its niche. Bit like rolling 2000AD, Love and Rockets and webcomics into one bumper package. If ever one did become popular the big names'd create for it anyway (guys like Bryan Hitch'd have to do speedy rougher work to make it pay, be interesting to see) , but no aiming just for pre-teens or I wouldn't want it anymore, new readers or no new readers. Ever tried buying enough comics to read on a long journey? It costs a small fortune, something must be done...

[timseeley]

What this article completely misses the boat on is "perceived worth."

We actually did talk about that..it's mentioned in the article...
The question I'm putting forth is more of a discussion about "tiers" of comic price points. Obviously some books can easily sustain at 3.99 and be glossy, slick and shiny. But is there room for a lower price point with a less "quality" production value, specifically aimed at people with less disposable entertainment income? I think it bears lots of discussion.
And, thanks much, Sr. Astrobrain. I also believe the Vertigo approach to trades is genius.

[dupont2005]

i also prefer the materials used 20 years ago or so. the covers were slightly semi-glossy, but light. i guess todays color printing can't really work on newsprint, but that baxter paper had some good looking color comics back then. i really hate any kind of gloss on interior pages. covers are fine glossy, but if they could be cheaper if they used something with a little less sheen, i'm all for it.

[Seraphex]

We actually did talk about that..it's mentioned in the article...
The question I'm putting forth is more of a discussion about "tiers" of comic price points. Obviously some books can easily sustain at 3.99 and be glossy, slick and shiny. But is there room for a lower price point with a less "quality" production value, specifically aimed at people with less disposable entertainment income? I think it bears lots of discussion.
And, thanks much, Sr. Astrobrain. I also believe the Vertigo approach to trades is genius.

Ah, the game is afoot.

I'll concede that perceived worth in comics is mentioned (however briefly) in the article Re: "there is a chance that lower-priced books could be perceived as lower quality precisely because they’re cheaper."

So on to the topic at hand, tiered pricing:

History has proven that tiers of price points will simply force the lower priced mags off most retailer shelves, to be replaced by the more expensive. It happened on magazine racks back before Diamond, it's happening now with Diamond, and with retailers inclined more towards higher profits in TPBs rather than cheaper floppies.

All about the benjamins, sadly. Display space costs money.

And on the reader side, is a customer more likely to spend money on a title they've never read, simply because it's cheaper than the Spiderman comic they've picked up? That's a big leap, based on wishful thinking. The rare times I've heard of that happening, it's usually the quarter bin diving, which is probably a little bit too steep a tier for what is hoped.

So tiered pricing on the retail level is probably a battle won by the dollar, rather than by artistic merit except in the rare, wondrous occasions.

The big kids are setting the price tag a big jump higher, and the hard facts are that the less well-known comics (like Seeley's excellent Hack/Slash) will feel the pain first, because they're...well...perceived as less value by most buyers simply because they're less well-known than the latest movie blockbuster character.

So what do we do? If tiered pricing doesn't work, is there a magic bullet for the smaller kids in the playground?

Well, here's the way I see it: a monthly has to have equal value to the time spent consuming it, and savoring it (the perceived value, if you will). Forget nostalgia or emotional value. We're talking about a quick consumable product that is rarely read more than twice. Sadly.

Here's where things get tricky. How do you compare the value of a monthly comic? Do you compare to a magazine like Wired or the New Yorker? A newspaper? A McDonald's Happy Meal?

More importantly, how would a book like Hack/Slash generate a perceived value high enough to forego either that Happy Meal or the umpteenth Wolverine book on the shelf? Is it the novelty? The cover art?

Bring it on. I think tiered pricing is a mook's game. If you want it, you'll buy it. So what ARE you willing to buy for $3.99?

[dupont2005]

is a customer more likely to spend money on a title they've never read, simply because it's cheaper than the Spiderman comic they've picked up?

from what i hear, yes. if you are into super heroes, and one company has 5 dollar 22 page comics, and another company has 3 dollar 24 page comics, with comparable talent, i would think the only ones who would stay are the ones who are going to buy the property regardless of how good it is, how much it costs, or what else is available. plenty of people on cbr said they are dropping marvel from their pull list strictly because of price

[Jonnytech]

We talk about making comics cheeper per 22-24 pages, but maybe this is the wrong direction... the flipside could be longer books 48-64+ pages for a little higher price.

What I am thinking of here is... why does uncanny, legacy, new x-men, etc HAVE to be sold seperately... would it be cheeper to have a flipbook style with uncanny on one side and legacy on the other?

Why does spiderman have to come out 3 times a month, why not 1 64 page page book for 6-7 bucks (like Spiderman Family is)?

[timseeley]

Right...that's where it gets potentially interesting. The idea of doing an 80 page anthology book, simple colors or black and white with some color, and charging 4.99 is pretty appealing to me. I know doing H/S initially as a 48 page 3.99 comic actually really HELPED since I had to sell less copies, as well as the fact that one issue at 3.99 seemed like a safe chance to take to most readers than buying 3 or 4 2.99 comics to get the vibe of the series.
My main interest is having a cheaper alternative to help bring in new readers. The quarter bin always worked for me as a kid, but I think today's readers are unlikely to get hooked on comics by reading an old issue of Infinity, Inc or Sleepwalker like I would have been.
But, yeah, if there's anyone out there with more marketing knowledge and comic store connections than I, I'd love to see a more in depth survey than my little dip in the pond.
TIM

[dupont2005]

why does uncanny, legacy, new x-men, etc HAVE to be sold seperately... would it be cheeper to have a flipbook style with uncanny on one side and legacy on the other?

Why does spiderman have to come out 3 times a month, why not 1 64 page page book for 6-7 bucks (like Spiderman Family is)?

because marvel wants you to buy 9 overpriced x-titles even though only 1 or 2 of them have decent talent. that's why they have all those crossovers. and then the megacrossovers, so that if you are a fan of spiderman you now have to buy thor for the next 3 months to complete your story arc. they aren't in the business of making things cheaper, easier, or more convenient for the reader

[timseeley]

because marvel wants you to buy 9 overpriced x-titles even though only 1 or 2 of them have decent talent. that's why they have all those crossovers. and then the megacrossovers, so that if you are a fan of spiderman you now have to buy thor for the next 3 months to complete your story arc. they aren't in the business of making things cheaper, easier, or more convenient for the reader

Well, it's also mostly that readers are basically TELLING Marvel and DC that they WANT more crossovers and mega crossovers. These things sell great. One of the reasons to bring this whole thing up is to ask comic consumers to look at their buying behavior, and find out what it is they really want. It's not crazy to predict the futures of comics is less choice on the racks, but more, super-slick, high quality, higher price point superhero universe stuff. I'm not saying that's wrong..if that's what people want to buy, that's the way the market will go.

[fredmanson]

In France, Italy, UK, Spain, Brazil we have anthologies instead of single books and published by the Panini Group.

They cost very low compare to the US prices.

US comic book is now around $3.99, which is near €2,34 and with a lot of ads in it. Bad paper quality and not a strong quality cover... For a mere 22-24 pages of comic only!

The Marvel titles and some DC titles are printed in France (each other countries has its own publishing titles lines) in many anthology comic books, with no ads, better quality paper (the same as in the US tpb!!!), a stronger quality cover and they mainly cost €4,60 which is around $6.00 for a full 96 pages of comics! And in what you call "Prestige format"...

The lowest pages anthologies in France are based on some titles, as Wolveryne, Ultimate Spider-Man, etc. which are 54 pages, no ads, same quality as the other books and a lower price.

In England, ASM is published twice a month in a prestige format comic book of 72 pages... Other Marvel titles are published in the classic prestige format comic book of 72 pages...

Also in England, the 2000 AD weekly magazine is published as a 36 pages comic book color magazine format, with one-two pages of ads only... For only a cost of £1.90 which is only $2,65!


Return in the USA.


Could you explain me WHY Radical Comics is publishing the best ever quality comic books: paper quality, strong cover quality, digital inking, 1-2 ads for the mags of the groups, near 22-28 pages of comic for only $2.99 a comic book? And sometimes the #1 sold only at $1,99 for a 54-60 pages comic books with a story of around 44-48 inside?

And they are printed in the USA or the Canada, except for the $1.99, 24 pages Prestige format printed in China.

So the problem cames from the major US comic book companies. Whey are too much big, with too much people in it and with a very blinded mind about on publishing anthologies instead of single comic book titles.

Marvel canceled the reprint of the monthly ASM BND. It was a great magazine at a low price of $3,99 for 48 pages with extras!
I was very disappointed! This comic book is only reprinting already printed individual comic books, so less charges on it at the end!

Now, they are doing a mix: an anthology (?) of 48 page for $3,99, a HUGE comic book "Marvel your universe" composed of only reprints of 5 titles for ONLY $5,99, same price for the "Marvel triple Action" which is a reprint of 3 titles of Marvel Adventures titles and now, the "Wolveryne Rampaging" title in B&W for $3,99...

The ASM Family seems to be a monthly title now. That's a huge and pleasant comic book of 104 pages for only $5,99. I hope that the monthly ASM BND are reprinted in it...

And I hope too that these anthologies won't be canceled in a near future. If that's the case, I will stop buying titles from the big ones and stay only on the Indies... As radical Comics!: