Birthright

**Seraku** · 02-04-2009, 08:54 AM

I've been seeing this at the shelf on my library quite a bit recently and decided to check it out on a whim. I flat out fell in love with this book, I'm not a big fan of Yu (though I did kinda dig his SI stuff recently) but I just personally thought Waid perfectly captured Superman's origin and I really dug the Luthor/Clark backstory.

anyone (dis)agree?

**Abraxas** · 02-04-2009, 09:32 AM

I had bought Birthright TPB and not knowing what to expect. I was greatly surprised. It was a beautiful piece of comic book work. To me it captured the essence of the first Superman movie.

The origin story for Superman is always a trickey subject, their have been so many variations of his origins of the years some survive and some fade away, it looks like after the new Superman: Origins work by Geoff Johns, Waid's Birthright will have little to new continuity impact. But it is sad to see such a well crafted comic book work fall between the cracks of a restructuring.

**WorstThingUS** · 02-04-2009, 09:45 AM

You know, I'm not going to hate on people liking it, but if you were a regular reader of Superman who picked this up to find that the last 20 years continuity were being trashed for no good reason, you'd be a little annoyed.

**eggie** · 02-04-2009, 01:17 PM

I greatly enjoyed the series at the time, but in retrospect there are some things about it I don't like...dont like Clark being a vegitarian, don't like the "soul vision"...am not sure how I feel about Lex being in Smallville...I love it on the show but don't know how I feel about it in comic continuity because it wouldn't be hard for Lex to recognize Superman as Clark Kent from his days in Smallville.

All in all, I still enjoy reading the story...so much so that even though i have the individual issue I bought the trade since I get those issues out so much to read.

**Ilash** · 02-04-2009, 01:57 PM

Awesome, awesome Superman story. As a "canonical" origin story though, I do have plenty of issues with it. Especially the three things that eggie mentioned above.

My main problem really is that I guess I like Byrne's origin for Superman a lot more than Waid does so I found a lot of the changes either unneccesary (vegetarianism) or, frankly, kind of stupid (Lex in Smallville).

Still, as far as Superman himself goes, backstory aside, Mark Waid sure as hell knows how to write the character and would be a much better fit for Superman right now than James Robinson has been.

**Seraku** · 02-04-2009, 05:56 PM

but if you were a regular reader of Superman who picked this up to find that the last 20 years continuity were being trashed for no good reason, you'd be a little annoyed.

lol that's longer than I'm been alive, so it personally didn't affect me much :P

am not sure how I feel about Lex being in Smallville

kind of stupid (Lex in Smallville).

this is still canon (Legion of 3 Worlds)

**Augusto** · 02-04-2009, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by eggie

dont like Clark being a vegitarian, don't like the "soul vision"...am not sure how I feel about Lex being in Smallville...I love it on the show but don't know how I feel about it in comic continuity because it wouldn't be hard for Lex to recognize Superman as Clark Kent from his days in Smallville.

Same here.

But I know I don't like at all Smallville Lex. They were just trying to mix Smallville TV Show with the comics. Hate it.

Maybe I'll go to ripp off the pages dealing with this, and I'm sure I'll enjoy it a lot more.

**Revolver7** · 02-04-2009, 10:11 PM

I really loved Birthright. its one of my favorite stories. i liked it better than byrne's superman origin too...i had some problems with byrnes story...like superman's cape not being his baby blanket, and didnt clark and pa kent come up with the superman 'S' instead of it being a symbol from krypton (its been a while ><) ? i also think that the clark kent studying abroad part of the mythos is great as well. thats not to say that i thought birthright was perfect... i hated the whole vegetarian thing, and to kill a mockingbird being clarks favorite book. but the ending made up for every shortcoming IMO

**Seraku** · 02-04-2009, 10:19 PM

I personally didn't mind the "soul vision" all that much, it was a bit tough to swallow but it was a pretty interesting concept for why any death pains Superman so much.

They were just trying to mix Smallville TV Show with the comics. Hate it.

correct if I'm wrong, but weren't there a bunch of silver aged stuff about Luthor living in Smallville?

**Augusto** · 02-04-2009, 11:58 PM

Originally Posted by Seraku

correct if I'm wrong, but weren't there a bunch of silver aged stuff about Luthor living in Smallville?

It's correct. But it was retconed after Crisis on Infinite Earths.

But what I meant to say it's the timing. Its like Warner were saying: "Ohhhh. We got a hit TV Show!! Let's mix it with the comics to make it cooler!!!"

Don't misunderstand me. I enjoyed Birthright like reading an elseworld story, because Byrne's "Man Of Steel" is canon for me. That's the ultimate origin for Superman.

**Sean Whitmore** · 02-05-2009, 03:01 AM

Originally Posted by WorstThingUS

You know, I'm not going to hate on people liking it, but if you were a regular reader of Superman who picked this up to find that the last 20 years continuity were being trashed for no good reason, you'd be a little annoyed.

If the internet had been around in 1987, I imagine there would have been many posts like this one.

SEAN

**Sean Whitmore** · 02-05-2009, 03:14 AM

Here's why bringing the "Lex in Smallville" idea back to the comics was pointless:

It doesn't mean anything without Superboy.

Luthor was Superboy's friend, not Clark's. So when that friendship broke down and became a rivalry, it continued into the present day with Luthor vs. Superman. But if it had been Clark who Luthor turned against as a kid, who cares? That rivalry would be completely forgotten as soon as Superman showed up.

Now, it works on Smallville without Superboy because you're actually seeing the story as it unfolds. Even knowing how things end up, you can appreciate the friendship developing between Clark and Lex, and be interested in how far it will go and how it will end. In the comics, Clark and Lex's friendship is only ever a flashback.

In other words, there's drama in seeing friends become enemies. There's significantly less drama in revealing that two enemies (or, rather, Lex and a guy he barely remembers) were friends 20 years ago for 15 minutes.

SEAN

**PatrickG** · 02-05-2009, 06:55 AM

I think it would have made a better movie than a comic book, with a few structural tweaks.

It feels to me like a Waid Superman movie pitch that got rejected, picked up by DiDio and expanded 3-4 issues.

I think it hit at a bad time in the comics, coming too hot on the heels of Loeb and Kelly's revamp efforts (and derailing those efforts in the process).

I enjoyed it. I think a lot of the Luthor stuff felt like it belonged in its own companion miniseries and that once you trimmed what was left over, you got a pretty ideal blueprint for a Superman movie.

But I kinda want comics to be more absurd and dense than movies and so I'd lump that in with the comics-as-cinema era of comics. If I saw the story onscreen, I'd love it. As a comic, it isn't "candy" enough for me to really enjoy. Good. Solid. But not "give your brain cavities from the sugar rush", which is what I want out of a super-hero comic.

**PatrickG** · 02-05-2009, 07:00 AM

Originally Posted by Sean Whitmore

Here's why bringing the "Lex in Smallville" idea back to the comics was pointless:

It doesn't mean anything without Superboy.

Luthor was Superboy's friend, not Clark's. So when that friendship broke down and became a rivalry, it continued into the present day with Luthor vs. Superman. But if it had been Clark who Luthor turned against as a kid, who cares? That rivalry would be completely forgotten as soon as Superman showed up.

True... But I like the Luthor-Clark dynamic we had under Morrison in ALL-STAR and under Johns.

It's not that their relationship ever soured that dramatically under Morrison's take but Luthor began to see Clark as a punching bag, a weakling, a failure who could stand to learn from him, Lex thinks that Clark should hate Superman even more than he does and sees Clark as a putz for letting Superman steal Lois and taking a desk job.

Heck, I bet in Luthor's twisted world, the resemblance between Clark and Superman is poetic irony and Lex believes that if Superman didn't exist, guys like Clark could be Superman. But that Superman oppresses Clark, keeps him down.

In Luthor's mind, Clark deserves to be Superman but can never be Superman as long as Superman exists.