Criticizing Mark Millar's Writing

[Karl O'Neill]

My biggest problem with mark millar's writing is i think he trys so hard to be cutting edge and exciting that he loses track of characterisation and after effect.
when a writer wants to to focus so much on being so current or contemporary it ruins it for me, because you know when another writer comes along they will do something different anyways.

I loved the spiderman unmasking in civil war #2, then it set up the black costume and all the rest, but one more day cancelled all those stories and moments out,

and i know that millar is a big head at marvel, so i bet 100 dollars he knew the changes were going to come but his shock reveal of peter parker's identity was only a stunt, so i do have honest to god problems with his work.

it seems very pop to me, I can imagine him telling his mates he has a good idea for a story or moment and all them agreeing with him and him doing it, but when you are writer, you must write to the best of your ability and not let current trends dictate your work.

having collosus being gay in ultimate x-men is another one, you see, there is nothing in my opinion wrong with being gay in this world/life, or in a comic book, but i felt this was done for the sake of being different, but the story and character came to nothing anyways, this didn't progress any storylines or moments for collossus because ultimate x-men is/was not very remarkable anyways.

[Grapeweasel]

Just not a fan.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Whilst his Marvel Universe work will always have its detractors (Mostly from those who don't like seeing their favourite characters f%^ked with) you cannot deny that Millar's Ultimate Universe work has always been top notch. At a time where the X-Men had become so distant from what made the series successful in the first place Millar's Ultimate X-Men was everything that the X-Men SHOULD be. Millar has a brilliant talent reinventing characters, in a way which reminds us just why we loved them in the first place.

Likewise, at a time where the Avengers seemed tired, cliched and a real hard-to-sell property The Ultimates made them credible again. It's hard to imagine NOW, admittedly :rolleyes: but it was a real must read title.

The whole Ultimate line owes a huge amount of its success to Millar. Bendis also, but Millar did more. You'll notice the drop off in quality since he left.

[SquidSquod]

Trade Millar for Geoff Johns.

[Guest_1001]

I absolutely adored Ultimates 1 & 2 and, to this day, it stands as being one of the best series I've ever read. Near-flawless storytelling, despite a rushed ending, and genuinely seemed like a big-budget Hollywood movie. I don't quite understand the logic behind saying Millar skips characterisation when he's written books that go several issues without any fighting. It's well-paced and character driven.

Having said that, I despise Kick-Ass. I've long accepted that I'm one of the few people in the world who thought that Watchmen was a pile of garbage but I find Kick-Ass to suffer from the same flaws, or at least one of them; when trying to make the writing and storytelling come off as edgy and mature, it just comes off as childish and puerile. Things like pointless swearing and lots of blood to attempt to shock but it seems very immature. It's a shame too; Ultimates didn't have the same content but I found it a far more mature book than Kick-Ass.

[Michael P]

He's far too in love with himself and his own ideas. He could be one of the best writers out there, if he'd only focus on storytelling instead of being a nerd rock star.

Also, "bias" is a noun; "biased" is an adjective.

[Shyft]

Things like pointless swearing and lots of blood to attempt to shock but it seems very immature. It's a shame too; Ultimates didn't have the same content but I found it a far more mature book than Kick-Ass.

While i agree Ultimates manages to be mature without those things, i dont see the logic that including them makes a book childish.

I dont mean to assume about your age, but when i was a mid- teeanger 5-6years ago, swearing was used as punctuation, and alot of fights i saw did have blood involved. So i dont see why having those elements in a comic book should be something to be deplored. If Millar is going for an element of gritty realism, those two traits hit the spot, id say.


On Millar, i love his Ultimates, but he seems to have difficulty transferring over to 616 writing. I think he even said in a recent interview about Ultimate Avengers that writing for 616 was tough considering all the history and specific plot points characters have gone through, so i guess it makes it hard to write them as thinking XYZ when fans will have hundreds of issues of that character thinking ABC instead.

[SydneyFalco]

I'm not that big a fan. Civil War was one of the first things I read when I started getting "back into" reading comics, but now I find his handling of several characters within (especially Cap) to be pretty off. I find he's too fond of "Joss Whedoning" stuff (i.e. using dramatic "shockers" for no relevant purpose other than "amping things up".) He also has a real trouble with endings, I think.

I also have to say that when I read an interview with him about his intentions with The Ultimates, I was astounded. I don't think he was getting across the themes he thought he was getting across.

To be fair, I have not read his non Marvel stuff. It looks, at cursory glance, a little too "edgy violent coolio" for my tastes.

[Congo Jack]

I think Millar is amazing at story structure and overall spectacle. I do find, however, that many of his characters are really quite unlovable, or at least less likable than their mainstream counterparts. Ultimate Bruce Banner and Hulk are despicable, Ultimate Hank Pym the same, even the greatest symbol for heroism, Ultimate Captain America's a decent guy but a bit of a dick, MU Tony Stark.

[Tinder]

I've only been reading comics for about 3 months after a 20 something year break. So I don't know much about all the different writers and such. To be honest when I read comics as a kind I had no interest or knowledge of who was writing them - they were just stories to me. So coming back as an adult and having some of a critical facility now (still a kid at heart I guess) I can give you some kind of opinion on what I think of Millar.

The Ultimates is what brought me back to comics in the first place - a friend of mine had an Avengers DVD which he had picked up for one of his kids - he used to read comics too when we are at school so he borrowed the disk to me and said have a watch of this. I did - and was pretty much unimpressed - but there was a documentary on their with Millar and Hitch talking about the Ultimates comic a very good documentary really - I liked what I saw. And went out and bought the trades.

What a great set of books they were. I never imagined comics had evolved so much. Millar did a great job with this. Ultimate Thor was just something wonderful to me. Anyway - that was me dipping my toe in the water. I've got to say comics today are very overwhelming for a newcomer. I didn't really know where to start - how the hell does one get back up to speed? Well having recently quit 30 cigarettes a day habit I had plenty of disposable cash and over the last three months have bought a hell of a lot of trades - around 50 so far. Needless to say with this whole Secret Invasion thing going on I'm a still totally confused and am nowhere near 'up to speed'.

The few Millar books I've bought though I really enjoyed. I was looking for an X-men title - as that was my main thing back in the 80s - to be honest I find the X-men impossible to get onboard with now - it's unrecognisable to be - too many books - no idea where to begin. Tried Astonishing X-men and read Wheldon's arcs - good - but no Nightcrawler and no Storm and Emma Frost hooked up with Cyk? Didn't really do it for me.

So I bought Millar's Wolverine: Enemy of the State/Agent of Shield. And yes - for me this had the old X-men spark. Loved his take on Wolverine - loved the bit with Daredevil, and Wolverine complaining about Matt's success with the ladies - I loved the whole Fantastic Four episode in it. Loved the narrative too.

Moved on from there to Civil War - only read the main book - and I did like it - again it was a new experience for me and there is a lot in the book I love. I can understand the motivation of Tony Stark in this book - and he doesn't come across as the complete ass that he does in other books I've read. My problem with CW is just some scenes with Captain America - where it seems as if we are reading Ultimate Cap. For some reason the scene where Cap shakes hands with Iron Man only to put that scrambler on Tony's armour grates with me. I dunno.

I guess you could say Millar is the reason I am reading comics again. Although going off recommendations I've read on this board I've found writers I like better. I've recently been reading Brubaker's run on Captain America (just finished the second book in the Death of Captain America arc) which I thought was absolutely stellar. Also reading JMS's Thor - again absolutely amazing stuff - love it to bits. And of course being a Brit: Captain Britain and MI13 which is very cool. This week I picked up Book 1 of Annihilation - which I'm reading as I want to get into the Cosmic stuff - really enjoying that. And also picked up the first of the brilliant Avengers: Initiative in anticipation of Slott writing Mighty Avengers (didn't like Bendis' MA too much - though I really enjoyed New Avengers)

Erm... turned into a bit of a ramble really. Heh... the first time I've got to talk about my passion for comics though so cut me some slack?

[Hoss]

Millar and Hitch on Ultimates is one of my favorite comic book runs in 25 years of reading. I find his work is usually short on cliches featuring interesting, imperfect people. Millar brought both a vulnerability and toughness to Captain America that truly resonated with me. His Steve Rogers truly felt like a super-patriotic soldier plucked from the 1940s.

I thought his take on Wolverine in Ultimate X-men was very interesting. He is the first writer in a long time to make Wolverine unpredictable and a danger to not just the bad guys but to the good guys as well.

Millar's Ultimate FF didn't leave much of an impression on me though I think creating the Marvel Zombies was truly inspired stuff.

Civil war had some gems but it suffered from 20 lbs of stuff in a 6 lb sack.

I agree with Sydneyfalco on Millar's non-Marvel stuff - I much prefer him when he is writing PG-13 stuff.

[Hoss]

Erm... turned into a bit of a ramble really. Heh... the first time I've got to talk about my passion for comics though so cut me some slack?

The Ulitmate line was created to give people a jumping on point with these great characters with out all of the continuity. I highly rec picking up Ultimate Spider-man, Fantastic Four, and X-Men trades.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Trade Millar for Geoff Johns.

Ooh, that'd be a toughie. Johns is excellent, but he's very much a DC guy. Millar is far more Marvel, bar his Superman fixation.

Having said that, I despise Kick-Ass. I've long accepted that I'm one of the few people in the world who thought that Watchmen was a pile of garbage but I find Kick-Ass to suffer from the same flaws, or at least one of them; when trying to make the writing and storytelling come off as edgy and mature, it just comes off as childish and puerile. Things like pointless swearing and lots of blood to attempt to shock but it seems very immature. It's a shame too; Ultimates didn't have the same content but I found it a far more mature book than Kick-Ass.

I think that Kick-Ass is what Kick-Ass intends and sets out to be. It is kind of puerile, but what do you expect from a book called 'Kick-Ass' I suppose.

I'm surprised you didn't dig Watchmen, though. But that's a query for another forum section, I guess.

I think Millar is amazing at story structure and overall spectacle. I do find, however, that many of his characters are really quite unlovable, or at least less likable than their mainstream counterparts. Ultimate Bruce Banner and Hulk are despicable, Ultimate Hank Pym the same, even the greatest symbol for heroism, Ultimate Captain America's a decent guy but a bit of a dick, MU Tony Stark.

Unlovable is far from unreadable, though. Whilst certainly a less flattering portrayal is made of some characters you can't deny that it makes for some very interesting reading.

I'd also argue that Tony Stark's gradual slide into his stance for Civil War (Though not entirely Millar's doing) was threaded through particularly well.

[b4ustandsi]

im not a millar fan but i thought the entire civil war was brilliant. his run on mk spidey (that was him right?) was also fun to read. his marvel1985 was utter crap. i dont follow his work so i dont know what other books of his i read but im sure ive read several

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I think that sometimes people misunderstand what Millar is trying to do on certain titles. 1985 is a sound example. It was intended to be like an 80s movie. Stylistically that was the brief, and that was what was delivered. If you don't have any interest in the genre it's trying to play with then you probably won't be interested in the series. That doesn't make it bad, though.