So 'Dark Mary Marvel' is....

[Cam63]

Dear Mr Didio,

Could you ask Gail Simone to write this character, please ?

Yours Sincerely,
Cam63

[scout1279]

Except for the ones he wants to change, like Impulse and Raven and Deathstroke.

At least for Impulse, I remember Waid saying in an interview that his becoming Kid Flash was not Geoff Johns' idea. It was editorial.

I think if Grant Morrison really wanted to do something about how young women/teenage girls are portrayed in comics, he should have ditched the meta commentary and contributed some positive portrayals of teenage girls. It's all well and good to comment on it, but if you actually have a problem with something, and you are in a position to do something about it, which he is, commenting on it without acting is a waste.

[Charles RB]

Why are Mary's undies showing in that JSA cover? What's the point?

Black Adam and Isis look embarrassed to be on the same cover as that shot...

And, it's an easy "out" for the writer.

I agree. If you're going to go down the route of having a hero go bad, go down it.

And IIRC, in Countdown Mary accidentally gained "dark" powers and then started revelling in the new power with them, which is why she later deliberately chose them again. You could do something with that.

Based on the JSA cover, she's sticking with the "dark" powers too - maybe they're stuck. Maybe she has to be good in the face of constant temptation, winning through sheer force of will and acknowledgement of the temptation while choosing to avoid it. (It won't be, of course, but oh well)

I'd think that Final Crisis actually containing the true ending to Batman RIP was more worthy of scorn than another hackneyed plot point in a comic book crossover.

Oh GOD yes.

[Tobias March]

At least for Impulse, I remember Waid saying in an interview that his becoming Kid Flash was not Geoff Johns' idea. It was editorial.

I think if Grant Morrison really wanted to do something about how young women/teenage girls are portrayed in comics, he should have ditched the meta commentary and contributed some positive portrayals of teenage girls. It's all well and good to comment on it, but if you actually have a problem with something, and you are in a position to do something about it, which he is, commenting on it without acting is a waste.

I refer you to Supergirl in Final Crisis 5.

[Red Jack]

i think mary's dead. look what happened to kraken.

[Evan Waters]

I don't think Morrison is participating in "SEXY Dark Mary" at all- she comes across as genuinely deranged and kinda freaky, sort of taking it to an uncomfortable extreme.

Frankly I think he's the only one doing this concept any justice.

[Pink Bat Maxine]

At least for Impulse, I remember Waid saying in an interview that his becoming Kid Flash was not Geoff Johns' idea. It was editorial.

I think if Grant Morrison really wanted to do something about how young women/teenage girls are portrayed in comics, he should have ditched the meta commentary and contributed some positive portrayals of teenage girls. It's all well and good to comment on it, but if you actually have a problem with something, and you are in a position to do something about it, which he is, commenting on it without acting is a waste.

What you said.

[scout1279]

I refer you to Supergirl in Final Crisis 5.

I'm not reading Final Crisis, and cool that he is having a positive portrayal in there, but it doesn't change the fact that Mary Marvel had to get fucked up in order for him to make his point.

And since Supergirl has now entered the discussion, there's a character that was already way off the mark, the lightning rod for all the criticism of how teenage girls are portrayed in comics. Why did Mary Marvel have to be brought to such an extreme when there were already so many complaints about Supergirl?

[Pink Bat Maxine]

I honestly don't see anything special about Supergirl's portrayal in Final Crisis #5. Yeah, she's being set up to be the 'good girl' to oppose Mary's 'bad girl', but we're not looking at any real depth of characterization going on. She's a plot device.

[Evan Waters]

I'm not reading Final Crisis, and cool that he is having a positive portrayal in there, but it doesn't change the fact that Mary Marvel had to get fucked up in order for him to make his point.

Is not the point more important than the respectability of any one character?

[scout1279]

I honestly don't see anything special about Supergirl's portrayal in Final Crisis #5. Yeah, she's being set up to be the 'good girl' to oppose Mary's 'bad girl', but we're not looking at any real depth of characterization going on. She's a plot device.

Which is all you can really expect from one issue of a seven issue miniseries, not to mention the fact that it doesn't change how she was portrayed for 20-something issues of her own book.

I'm not criticizing Morrison, but I'm not going to praise him for commenting on a problem that people have been aware of for years now.

[Cayman]

At least for Impulse, I remember Waid saying in an interview that his becoming Kid Flash was not Geoff Johns' idea. It was editorial.

I think if Grant Morrison really wanted to do something about how young women/teenage girls are portrayed in comics, he should have ditched the meta commentary and contributed some positive portrayals of teenage girls. It's all well and good to comment on it, but if you actually have a problem with something, and you are in a position to do something about it, which he is, commenting on it without acting is a waste.

He's already created DC's best teenage girl character, Beryl Hutchinson - The Squire.

[Adam C]

Only problem.. is that shes going back to that post Final Crisis.. as see on this JSA cover

This is probably nit-picking at this point (when is it never?) but are sure that's post-Final Crisis? I know the solicits for post-FC are coming out now, but going by memory of issue #4 where Freddie was entreating Black Adam to join the fight against Darkseid, the throne room he was in looked vaguely like the Rock of Ages.

(Then again maybe we should just give up on trying to maintain consistent continuity with DC at all.)

I don't think Morrison is participating in "SEXY Dark Mary" at all- she comes across as genuinely deranged and kinda freaky, sort of taking it to an uncomfortable extreme.

Frankly I think he's the only one doing this concept any justice.

Ditto. The first moment I saw her in that outfit I thought, "Well, everyone was treating it seriously, but Morrison seems to taking a piss the idea."

Why did Mary Marvel have to be brought to such an extreme when there were already so many complaints about Supergirl?

Based on what's appeared in FC and how some of the ideas bled appeared in Countdown I think we're looking at the problem where Morrison's intent was simply to have Mary be possessed by evil (Gods) for the duration of mini. However, Morrison's intent turned into DC taking that basic concept and thoroughly running it into the ground, through the core of the Earth and back out somewhere along China or India over the course of an entire year.

I'd think that Final Crisis actually containing the true ending to Batman RIP was more worthy of scorn than another hackneyed plot point in a comic book crossover.

Thirded. This is the one thing that I really do agree Morrison dropped the ball on.

[Pink Bat Maxine]

Which is all you can really expect from one issue of a seven issue miniseries, not to mention the fact that it doesn't change how she was portrayed for 20-something issues of her own book.

I'm not criticizing Morrison, but I'm not going to praise him for commenting on a problem that people have been aware of for years now.

I think more COULD have been done.

But to service the story, no more NEEDED to be done. Her role is pretty simple, doesn't really need one to know much for her. Her function is to be a symbol, period.

[scout1279]

Is not the point more important than the respectability of any one character?

No, it's not, because 1) anyone who cares about the point, is already aware of it, and 2) now there's one less respectable teenage superheroine in the DCU.

Like I said before, commenting on something, when you could be acting on it is a waste. It's passive. I don't find it particularly praiseworthy. It's not like he's some indie comics creator who is dissatisfied with the state of the industry and trying to make a point from the outside with spoof or allegorical characters.