car companeis

[Briareos]

It's not just that the car companies misjudged the market (They make small cars and such and Toyota makes SUVs) but the union contracts they are stuck with make it impossible to compete with Toyota or Honda. I honestly don't think having them go bankrupt would be all that bad of idea. It just means they have to reorganize and all those sweetheart deals that the unions got would be rewritten. It has to be done there is no way they can compete with Toyota due to labor costs. That's the real elephant in the room not that they didn't make hybrids or electric cars.

[Dennis]

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/dai...108.guest.html

RUSH: Get this. Tom Coburn, Oklahoma.

COBURN: In 2007, GM sold 9.37 million cars worldwide. Toyota, that same year, sold 9.37 million cars worldwide. GM lost 38.7 billion. Toyota made 17.7 billion. Therein lies the problem.

[Dennis]

American companies making small hybrids to compete with the Japanese - how do we know they can compete with them? This is as stupid as American manga! American cars are inherently about excess and power.

[Lord Destiny]

It's not just that the car companies misjudged the market (They make small cars and such and Toyota makes SUVs) but the union contracts they are stuck with make it impossible to compete with Toyota or Honda. I honestly don't think having them go bankrupt would be all that bad of idea. It just means they have to reorganize and all those sweetheart deals that the unions got would be rewritten. It has to be done there is no way they can compete with Toyota due to labor costs. That's the real elephant in the room not that they didn't make hybrids or electric cars.

That's the American way... blame the workers.

You know what the Japanese don't do...? They don't blame the workers when management screws up. They don't solve their problems with the quick fix of layoffs. Their management takes responsibility for the mistakes management makes.

American corporations can't compete with Japan because American corporation are OBSESSED with short term profits. The Japanese always look long term. They weather storms because they're thinking ten, twenty years down the road. Americans can't get their heads out of their asses long enough to see past the next quarterly report!

[Briareos]

Facts are facts:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/1205/p01s04-usec.html

[Charles RB]

That's the American way... blame the workers.

Shit, how dare American workers want a decent wage and benefits. It's almost like they want to live.

[Drusilla lives!]

Whatever happened to all the "JIT" manufacturing methods that everyone raved about in the late eighties and early nineties? If I recall, just in time manufacturing was suppose to allow companies the flexibility to prevent getting caught in just such a mess as the auto makers are in right now.

Shit, how dare American workers want a decent wage and benefits. It's almost like they want to live.

Right on bro... I couldn't say it better myself.

[Brother Zag]

Oh, these workers! Why didn't I hear anyone complaining about the employees of the financial firms when we bailed out Wall Street? This is just manufactured indignation drummed up by the (defeated yet still going) Republican machine. It is not the workers contracts that are killing these companies. Grant is right on here, it's the management that ignored shit 30 years ago who are making us all relive this crap and trying to drag us down with them. The UAW and the unions have met every single one of their promises, it is management who have not. Stop crapping on the American worker, it's unpatriotic. Jeesh!

[Charles RB]

I'm amazed Grant even needed to say "let's attach some conditions to this big amount of cash we're giving" - that should be obvious, it's what nations SHOULD do.

[Lord Destiny]

Facts are facts:

Only TWO facts matter in this conversation:

1. The GOP immediately gave 700 billion to Wall Street without reservation. No questions asked.

2. The GOP refuses to give a mere 14 billion to the auto industry. And now nitpicks over every detail.

This is complete bullshit. This is why I left that lousy party in 1992. At every opportunity, the GOP takes a big shit on the working class. And for some unfathomable reason, other working class people say "thank you sir, may I have another."

The GOP would gladly kill Detroit's economy and devastate large portions of the vast auto-related economy for IDEOLOGY. This is about UNIONS and nothing else. It's sure as fuck not about fiscal responsibility. (The auto makers are asking a mere 2% of what Wall Street got. And are willing to make concessions and have oversight. But that's still not enough for the GOP!)

...maybe if the CEOs went to Washington not as the auto industry but simply as rich people, they'd have gotten those 14 billion before lunch!

Union workers don't make anywhere near what AIG suits make. Yet this didn't matter when it came to doling out welfare for the rich. It only matters when the working class needs help.

And it's a total lie that Detroit workers make more than Toyota in KY. The GOP adds in retirees, disabled, etc. when concocting their union wages. Yeah, my salary would look pretty good too if you added my retired neighbor's benefits to it. Utter accounting nonsense. Cooked numbers to deceive people.

Sure Toyota looks more profitable. When you can operate virtually tax free and have the taxpayer fund all the land development (like how we paid for their exit off the interstate; helluva gift, getting your own nearly-private exit off the highway). WE PAY TOYOTA TO OPERATE HERE. So if Toyota's more competitive, it's because of KY's egregious welfare given them.

[Charles RB]

Only TWO facts matter in this conversation:

1. The GOP immediately gave 700 billion to Wall Street without reservation. No questions asked.

2. The GOP refuses to give a mere 14 billion to the auto industry. And now nitpicks over every detail.

They could at least say "sorry, we don't have 14 billion anymore because we bunged all available cash into the Wall Street bailout!"...

[Lord Destiny]

And let me add this little FACT...

Wall Street CREATED its own crisis. The auto industry is a VICTIM of someone else's crisis.

The auto industry is hurt because the can't get their cars financed. This isn't the UNION's fault.

(All this talk about bad auto policies is a secondary issue. If they could get their cars financed, there would be no discussion of bailouts.)

[badMike]

The auto industry is a VICTIM of someone else's crisis.

That's debatable. Sure, the industry is having problems right now because of the overall economic recession, but their horrific mismanagement didn't help them stay out of this mess, either.

[Charles RB]

(All this talk about bad auto policies is a secondary issue

Not really, as they're the reason the companies were vulnerable.

[Nick Soapdish]

Only TWO facts matter in this conversation:

1. The GOP immediately gave 700 billion to Wall Street without reservation. No questions asked.

2. The GOP refuses to give a mere 14 billion to the auto industry. And now nitpicks over every detail.

Not exactly.

The GOP didn't support the bailout package the first time that it came up.