Page 4 of 17 FirstFirst 1234567814 ... LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 241
  1. #46

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Theophilus View Post
    It's an odd place to draw the line, indeed! When Peter dates a "5" I'll buy into the everyman.

    Who knows, maybe the fairness doctrine will apply to comics and Peter will be required by law to balance every "10" with a "1"! Just once couldn't the guy make an overweight girl feel good about herself?
    As long as, in the main, men continue writing these comics for men, I don't ever see Peter dating a '5', much less a '1'.

    Fairness Doctrine comment was funny, but I suspect you've just raised a target!
    Be careful when speaking. You create the world around you with your words.

  2. #47
    Marked for Redemption David Walton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    13,409

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Thompson View Post
    Another fine post! Completely agree with everything you've written here.
    Thanks for the encouragment!
    "I came to the conclusion that the optimist thought everything good except the pessimist, and the pessimist thought everything bad, except himself." -- G.K. Chesterton

  3. #48
    Marked for Redemption David Walton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    13,409

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Thompson View Post
    As long as, in the main, men continue writing these comics for men, I don't ever see Peter dating a '5', much less a '1'.


    To carry over from a previous conversation, we could always get Ann Nocenti on board! If Marvel is seriously going to pursue this dating life course again, it might be nice to get an authentic feminine perspective. Course the writer always runs the risk of getting screwed over by the artist who thinks a "5" is Swimsuit Issue page 22 hot as opposed to front cover hot!

    Fairness Doctrine comment was funny, but I suspect you've just raised a target!
    I hear there's a run on high powered-assault thread drifts now that Obama's coming into power!
    "I came to the conclusion that the optimist thought everything good except the pessimist, and the pessimist thought everything bad, except himself." -- G.K. Chesterton

  4. #49

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Theophilus View Post
    To carry over from a previous conversation, we could always get Ann Nocenti on board! If Marvel is seriously going to pursue this dating life course again, it might be nice to get an authentic feminine perspective. Course the writer always runs the risk of getting screwed over by the artist who thinks a "5" is Swimsuit Issue page 22 hot as opposed to front cover hot!
    Marv Wolfman actually was pretty good at establishing an adult relationship between Dick Grayson and Starfire when he was writing Teen Titans. He didn't rely of the T & A aspects of things, which was nice.

    Simone might be a good Spider-Man writer, too, in addition to Nocenti.

    I hear there's a run on high powered-assault thread drifts now that Obama's coming into power!
    I started stocking up before the election!
    Be careful when speaking. You create the world around you with your words.

  5. #50
    Marked for Redemption David Walton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    13,409

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Thompson View Post
    Marv Wolfman actually was pretty good at establishing an adult relationship between Dick Grayson and Starfire when he was writing Teen Titans. He didn't rely of the T & A aspects of things, which was nice.

    Simone might be a good Spider-Man writer, too, in addition to Nocenti.
    Simone comes to mind as well, and I hadn't thought of Wolfman but that's a good point.

    I started stocking up before the election!
    Good man. I hear you can take out a moose in a Russian chat room from a helicopter a hundred miles away with those things!
    "I came to the conclusion that the optimist thought everything good except the pessimist, and the pessimist thought everything bad, except himself." -- G.K. Chesterton

  6. #51

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Theophilus View Post
    Simone comes to mind as well, and I hadn't thought of Wolfman but that's a good point.
    If Eric Larsen could be talked into it, I'd bring him back to write some relationship stories as well. His work is under-rated in that area, I think.
    Good man. I hear you can take out a moose in a Russian chat room from a helicopter a hundred miles away with those things!
    I remember watching Roosevelt do that on TV right after he addressed the nation about the Pearl Harbor strike.
    Be careful when speaking. You create the world around you with your words.

  7. #52
    Marked for Redemption David Walton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    13,409

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Thompson View Post
    If Eric Larsen could be talked into it, I'd bring him back to write some relationship stories as well. His work is under-rated in that area, I think.


    Larsen kind of fell into that odd gap between Michelinie/McFarlane and the Clone Saga setup, which is why he's underrated. But he was constantly evolving as a storyteller and I certainly wouldn't mind seeing him take another crack at it today.

    I remember watching Roosevelt do that on TV right after he addressed the nation about the Pearl Harbor strike.
    Was that Pre-Crisis or post-Crisis? 'Cuz Post-Crisis, I hear he gave that address from the Starship Enterprise.
    Last edited by David Walton; 11-10-2008 at 08:50 AM.
    "I came to the conclusion that the optimist thought everything good except the pessimist, and the pessimist thought everything bad, except himself." -- G.K. Chesterton

  8. #53

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Theophilus View Post
    Was that Pre-Crisis or post-Crisis? 'Cuz Post-Crisis, I hear he gave that address from the Starship Enterprise.
    Pre-Crisis -- that's why he was talking while on the Millennium Falcon.
    Be careful when speaking. You create the world around you with your words.

  9. #54
    Go Go Gadget Cinderblock! Hertz's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Near Chicago, IL
    Posts
    1,646

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Thompson View Post
    Pre-Crisis -- that's why he was talking while on the Millennium Falcon.
    That was after he tried to write a new bill of rights?
    Last edited by Hertz; 11-10-2008 at 11:42 AM.

  10. #55
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    28,428

    Default

    Originally posted by HULKquist:"If he is supposedly mid-late 20's, he should have an idea where he stands in terms of his capabilities."

    I certainly know from my experience in life that my mid-late 20's was and continues to be a time where I reevaluate what I want out of life and reassess my capabilities. The jobs I had when I was going to school were fine, as they were flexible enough that I could do my schoolwork, go to classes and still have time to have a social life. However, they were not jobs that I wanted to work in for the rest of my life. Once I graduated University, I found the jobs I had distasteful and desired something more out of my life, that would pay more and provide more security.

    How this relates to Peter, is that while I think being a freelance Photographer was fine for him when he was going to school, as it allowed him to have a flexible schedule and still be a superhero and go to school and pay the bills, now that he has graduated and is no longer attending graduate school he should get a job that is a little more grown up. Being a freelancer was fine when he was going to school, but now that he no longer has that aspect in his life he has no real reason to avoid getting a full time job other than laziness and lack of ambition.
    Last edited by RDMacQ; 11-10-2008 at 03:37 PM.

  11. #56
    Clerk by day James Conniff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    2,739

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RDMacQ View Post
    Originally posted by HULKquist:"If he is supposedly mid-late 20's, he should have an idea where he stands in terms of his capabilities."

    I certainly know from my experience in life that my mid-late 20's was and continues to be a time where I reevaluate what I want out of life and reassess my capabilities. The jobs I had when I was going to school were fine, as they were flexible enough that I could do my schoolwork, go to classes and still have time to have a social life. However, they were not jobs that I wanted to work in for the rest of my life. Once I graduated University, I found the jobs I had distasteful and desired something more out of my life, that would pay more and provide more security.

    How this relates to Peter, is that while I think being a freelance Photographer was fine for him when he was going to school, as it allowed him to have a flexible schedule and still be a superhero and go to school and pay the bills, now that he has graduated and is no longer attending graduate school he should get a job that is a little more grown up. Being a freelancer was fine when he was going to school, but now that he no longer has that aspect in his life he has no real reason to avoid getting a full time job other than laziness and lack of ambition.
    Grow Up? Laziness? Lack of Ambition?
    Being Spider-man isn't a choice for him, it is something that he has to keep his main priority night and day. So if a bad guy attacks in the middle of the night and Peter hears about it, he goes. Electro doesn't just rob banks when Peter punches out of work. Venom isn't going to wait till 6 to kidnap Peters new girl.
    Showing up to a day job promptly at 9 isn't always going to be an option for Peter, keeping that ambitious grown up job is going to be pretty rough when you are constantly running off to save peoples lives.

    The freelance job is a necessity for Peter and Spider-man. It allows him to be Spidey when he needs to and not be tied to set schedule, since the super villains Peter faces aren't.

  12. #57
    Moderator Mister Mets's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Queens, New York
    Posts
    22,997

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RDMacQ View Post
    Originally posted by HULKquist:"If he is supposedly mid-late 20's, he should have an idea where he stands in terms of his capabilities."

    I certainly know from my experience in life that my mid-late 20's was and continues to be a time where I reevaluate what I want out of life and reassess my capabilities. The jobs I had when I was going to school were fine, as they were flexible enough that I could do my schoolwork, go to classes and still have time to have a social life. However, they were not jobs that I wanted to work in for the rest of my life. Once I graduated University, I found the jobs I had distasteful and desired something more out of my life, that would pay more and provide more security.

    How this relates to Peter, is that while I think being a freelance Photographer was fine for him when he was going to school, as it allowed him to have a flexible schedule and still be a superhero and go to school and pay the bills, now that he has graduated and is no longer attending graduate school he should get a job that is a little more grown up. Being a freelancer was fine when he was going to school, but now that he no longer has that aspect in his life he has no real reason to avoid getting a full time job other than laziness and lack of ambition.
    And the times he keeps as Spider-Man.

    If he has a nine to five, that means he has to cut out of work everytime Doctor Octopus threatens the city at Noon, or any of his villains pulls a bank heist at 2 PM.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

    Formerly,
    Cyberman

    Blog,
    What Would Spidey Do?

  13. #58
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    28,428

    Default

    Originally posted by Tremnar:"Grow Up? Laziness? Lack of Ambition?
    Being Spider-man isn't a choice for him, it is something that he has to keep his main priority night and day. So if a bad guy attacks in the middle of the night and Peter hears about it, he goes. Electro doesn't just rob banks when Peter punches out of work. Venom isn't going to wait till 6 to kidnap Peters new girl.
    Showing up to a day job promptly at 9 isn't always going to be an option for Peter, keeping that ambitious grown up job is going to be pretty rough when you are constantly running off to save peoples lives.

    The freelance job is a necessity for Peter and Spider-man. It allows him to be Spidey when he needs to and not be tied to set schedule, since the super villains Peter faces aren't."

    The thing is, we have seen Peter take a job that requires more of his time and still manage to uphold his responsibilities as a superhero. In fact, if he wasn't a teacher, he wouldn't have been able to save several lives as his tenure as a teacher. When he went in for his job interview, he stopped a school shooting and later saved the life of one of his students from a supernatural predator.

    Again, this line of reasoning seems bring up what I feel is a underlying hypocrisy in the new direction. The direction is promoted as a drastic change and argues that it frees Spider-Man up storywise, but when real change comes along (like Peter becoming a teacher) which opens up new avenues of storytelling it is rejected because people say it is too different and unlike what they new. And by saying that Spider-Man can only be a freelance photographer, and only be single, they are in essence putting restrictions on the character that limit him and prevent any sort of new stories that can develop basically ensuring the very problems they are trying to prevent.
    Last edited by RDMacQ; 11-10-2008 at 04:53 PM.

  14. #59
    Clerk by day James Conniff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    2,739

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RDMacQ View Post
    The thing is, we have seen Peter take a job that requires more of his time and still manage to uphold his responsibilities as a superhero. In fact, if he wasn't a teacher, he wouldn't have been able to save several lives as his tenure as a teacher. When he went in for his job interview, he stopped a school shooting and later saved the life of one of his students from a supernatural predator.
    He may have held up his obligations as a superhero but at the cost of being a decent teacher. Showing up half the time to an adult job doesn't show any growth as a character. Simply being in that position doesn't make him a more responsible character.

    Peter saves lives where ever he is. It's because he is Spider-man. Were he somewhere else saving other lives would it have been any less heroic?

    Again, this line of reasoning seems bring up what I feel is a underlying hypocrisy in the new direction. The direction is promoted as a drastic change and argues that it frees Spider-Man up storywise, but when real change comes along (like Peter becoming a teacher) which opens up new avenues of storytelling it is rejected because people say it is too different and unlike what they new. And by saying that Spider-Man can only be a freelance photographer, and only be single, they are in essence putting restrictions on the character that limit him and prevent any sort of new stories that can develop basically ensuring the very problems they are trying to prevent.
    Hypocrisy? Hardly. It doesn't make sense that Peter could KEEP a full time job like being a teacher and be Spider-man.

    I loved Peter being a science teacher. There were some good stories told there (like the school shooting issue)but it was clear due to Spidey's past this wouldn't be a permanent position. It also seems more likely that Peter will run into more things Spider-man should check up on, running around the city taking pictures, than being a Science Teacher back at Midtown.
    It was great for a bit, but there's just no realistic way for Peter to keep that job. Just like there isn't any realistic way for Peter to keep any kind of regular day job, he has never kept one for very long in the comics. It's just part of who the character is. Eventually no matter how good he was at a job, he is going to get fired due to having to be Spider-man(or recover from a beating Spidey took) and missing work.

    I'm not saying he has to be a Photographer. I'm saying Freelance gigs just make sense for the character...and he has a history of being a Photographer, so it works. And Spidey doesn't have to be single...it just opens up a lot more storytelling opportunities than him being Hitched.

  15. #60
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    28,428

    Default

    Originally posted by Tremnar:"It was great for a bit, but there's just no realistic way for Peter to keep that job. Just like there isn't any realistic way for Peter to keep any kind of regular day job, he has never kept one for very long in the comics. It's just part of who the character is. Eventually no matter how good he was at a job, he is going to get fired due to having to be Spider-man(or recover from a beating Spidey took) and missing work."

    I made a joke about this in another thread. Basically, I found it funny that people say it is not realistic that Pete is a teacher, where this is a story where the main character has the abilities of a spider and fights people who throw lightning, possess the powers of the animal kingdom or have alien organisms grafted to their body. Realism isn't really a major factor for this character.

    Now whether or not Peter is BELIEVABLE as a teacher I understand. But the argument people make is that Pete can't have a nine to five job in case he has to run off to fight a supervillain downtown or something. But the fact of the matter is that Peter managed to get a quality education (high school AND college) that required him to do coursework, study and keep good grades in order to graduate. And if Pete managed to do well enough in high school to get into college and do well enough in college to get into graduate school, then he must have been spending a lot more than just a few days a week at School and wasn't ditching classes at a rate where it would affect his grades. We're talking coursework, studying, labs, tutorials, tests, the works, all of which aren't something he could just ditch at a moments notice without serious consequence.

    Saying that the character only works if he is a freelance photographer, or that he is bound to be fired no matter what job he attends so he may as well not even try is still putting boundaries on the character. There is not more potential, there is less because the message is that the character can only work one way and cannot deviate from a standard formula.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •