Science fiction books and superhero comics

[Green Lantern wannabe]

Has anyone ever noticed this dichotomy:

Science fiction tends to sell well when they're in novel form; superhero stories sell well when they're in comic form. There are exceptions, true, but that's the general rule.

Does anyone have an explanation?

[Roquefort Raider]

First : why super-heroes don't seem to fare as well in books as in comics.

I'm sure it has something to do with willing suspension of disbelief. Super-heroes were created three generations ago and have become an accepted part of American pop culture; people who grew up reading comic-books in which muscled guys in spandex catch criminals are used to this ridiculous idea. Even people who never read comics are familiar with the super-hero aesthetics and with the tropes of the genre. The reading of a Superman comic in a dentist's waiting room may elicit responses like "is it possible to lift a building without it falling apart?" but not "why is this guy wearing his undies over his pants?" anymore.

In other fields such as novels, TV and cinema, it is a different matter. (Saturday morning cartoons are fine, because they're watched by young kids who will accept anything). The non-comic reading population has a hard time not finding superheroes a little ridiculous. Consider the only super-hero films or TV series that were truly popular among the general public : they are always much closer to reality than their comics counterpart (and actually closer to science-fiction than to traditional super-hero fiction). Even the sexy Hugh Jackman (a big factor in getting ladies to go see the X-Men movies, I'm convinced) would have been laughed at in Wolverine's yellow spandex.

Second : why SF doesn't work as well in comics as in novels.

I think it has to do with expectations. Good science-fiction is more cerebral than the traditional power fantasies or revenge fantasies that so many comic-book plots are based on. Of course, that doesn't mean that the American super-hero comic doesn't make use of science-fiction; in fact, ever since Fantastic Four #1, I think almost all comics have been at least partly based on some SF premise. (It would be interesting to analyze why SF worked better in comic-strips than in comic-books; I think that may be because the original readers of Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers hadn't yet been exposed to decades of super-hero material). The few "SF" comic-books that work are usually derivative products (tied to movies, mainly) or super-hero stories set in a futuristic universe.

The situation is quite different in Europe, where super-heroes are still an imported product and a minor genre. European SF comics series have been around since the 50s (and more). I think part of the success of SF in comics over there is due to the fact that what Americans call "graphic novels" are the form that was adopted right from the start by European creators. Although most of the stories were presented a few pages at a time in weekly periodicals, they were not unending sagas: they were plotted to run for 64 pages (later 46) with a clear ending in sight. They were more amenable to the presentation of SF stories, and nobody wore a tight-fitting trapeze artist leotard.

There's probably a lot more to it, and I'll be curious to read what the others have to say about this. Great subject, GLW!

[Green Lantern wannabe]

Wunderbar!

Yes, you're right - science fiction comic strips did do well, as in the Buck Rogers comics. I think you hit it right in saying that SF is cerebral and hard to put into action comics, but that doesn't deal with the issue of why SF did work well in comic strips and not in comic books.

As for superheros in novels, well, if the public can accept silly romance novels, they can accept anything. In fact, the public seems to accept just about any concept in book form. I think that many readers can accept the idea of spandex heros going about catching bank robbers, though why they do so in comics but not novels, I don't know.

[Matthew E]

I think part of the problem with superheroes in novels is the writing. We're used to superheroes in comics, where the art carries a lot of the weight of the narrative. Translate that to prose, though, and the text has to do it all, and a lot of writers can't quite get the mix right, and the story seems sketchy and underwritten. This doesn't always happen, but I believe it's the most common failing of prose superhero stories.

[Roquefort Raider]

As for superheros in novels, well, if the public can accept silly romance novels, they can accept anything. In fact, the public seems to accept just about any concept in book form.

Mmmmh... I don't think that silly romance novels and super-hero novels play on the same field of ridiculousness, so to speak. Silly romance novels may be ridiculous for their telegraphed plots and clichéd dialog, but they're still dealing with things that ordinary readers can somehow relate to : finding someone to love and overcoming obstacles to get there.

Likewise, a superhero novel without the tights would probably be quite widely accepted; in fact, what are Remo Williams, Doc Savage or Tarzan if not superheroes? They are far more gifted that us mere mortals, and they fight for justice and order. The difference is that their basic motivation is not "I'll put on a disguise and go fight crime!" That's something nobody (outside of a comic-book reader) can relate to. I've been enjoying comics for, what, 40+ years now and the only super-hero novel I've read that I liked (and in fact I loved it!) had no cape and no crime-fighting in it. It was a mystery featuring retired and undisguised heroes*.

Cheers!

- Ben



* Lash house, by CBR's own Cei-U. And it's a damn shame that the book is unpublished.

[Green Lantern wannabe]

Doc Savage is definitely a superhero, so you're right. But he would be the exception. Today, there seems to be a divide, where heros in spandex are shown in comics but not novels. Science fiction, as in Star Trek, are narrated in novels, but not comics.

That's not a hard and fast rule, of course, but it still seems to be a rule.

[Libaax]

There are superhero like character in SF but SF in books are alot different from the movies. It focuses more on ideas,social or science or characters or species.

Its just not like Matrix type movies. Thats why superhero translate well in movies but not in books.

Superhero was made for the comics thats why it doesnt work well in novels.
Its so visual thats prolly why it works in comics and movies.

[Green Lantern wannabe]

Superhero was made for the comics thats why it doesnt work well in novels.
Its so visual thats prolly why it works in comics and movies.

I would agree that superhero stories are visual - hence the big red "S" for Superman, for example. But stories are stories. Superman I and II are a little cerebral, and the novelization of Superman I is quite cerebral. But that can't be the only reason.

There are action stories in SF novels, so action stories for superheros should, in theory, be appropriate for novels as well. But, somehow, it just doesn't work that way.

[Libaax]

I would agree that superhero stories are visual - hence the big red "S" for Superman, for example. But stories are stories. Superman I and II are a little cerebral, and the novelization of Superman I is quite cerebral. But that can't be the only reason.

There are action stories in SF novels, so action stories for superheros should, in theory, be appropriate for novels as well. But, somehow, it just doesn't work that way.

If there were only action stories in SF novels it would not be as famous genre that is today. Some genres are more action and visual than others. Superhero is one of them.

I didnt mean superhero couldnt cerebral but in general they are straightforward action,adventure. More like certain fantasy subgenres.

Thats why both genres are so big in movies from Superman,Batman to LOTR. Action,adventure works really well visually in movies,comics. Thats why we can count on one hand SF movies that arent mostly action or horror or something. Movies like Bladerunner who are more like most famous SF stories are rare.

Philip K Dick,Asimov,Heinlein books are not easy to translate well visually in a movie. They arent action or adventure stories.

[Paul McEnery]

Has anyone ever noticed this dichotomy:

Science fiction tends to sell well when they're in novel form; superhero stories sell well when they're in comic form. There are exceptions, true, but that's the general rule.

Does anyone have an explanation?

The painful bottom line is that science fiction doesn't tend to sell well as novels either. The general public probably knows the name of one living science fiction author -- and he's stopped writing science fiction.

Then again, the top writers in the field of mainstream comics are all science fiction writers (except Neil). Britain's leading comic book, 2000 AD, is a science fiction comic. And it's not just the Brits coming up from 2000 AD -- what do you call Y the Last Man if not science-fiction?

As for why superhero stories don't work as well in novels, well, why are there very few novels about wrestling bouts? There's only so many ways you can write punch punch punch punch DESTROY!

[Green Lantern wannabe]

There are a ton of science fiction action novels, especially military science fiction. But they're not translated into comic book form, as a general rule. By the same token, the action superheros are also not translated into action novels, perhaps to compete with the other action genres.

But, as I said, that's just a general rule, not a hard and fast one.

[Rabid Trekkie]

Doc Savage is definitely a superhero, so you're right. But he would be the exception. Today, there seems to be a divide, where heros in spandex are shown in comics but not novels. Science fiction, as in Star Trek, are narrated in novels, but not comics.

That's not a hard and fast rule, of course, but it still seems to be a rule.

Actually there are Star Trek comics. Star Trek TOS: Year Four, Assignment Earth, Alien Spotlight, and they just finished a second TNG miniseries and a miniseries based on the novel series New Frontier.

Baen books has been republishing The Spider, who is kind of like Batman with guns.

And superheroes are starting to appear in novel form more. After Batman Begins, DC published three Batman books one of which was Fear Itself by Michael Reaves which is fantastic. They also did three or four books with other DC characters. And Marvel has released quite a few books, most of them by writers of the Trek books. I've got quite a few but haven't read them all yet. And of course the Wild Cards series by George R.R. Martin has been revived and there is a second book planned, as well as Who Can Save Us Now and The Darker Mask which are superhero short stories.

So superheroes are starting to make their way into books, I don't think we'll see a rise in sci-fi comics (outside of Star Trek and Star Wars and superhero space stories) until we see a rise in science fiction popularity again. There's a lot of really good books out there right now, but until sci-fi catches the public imagination again and gets a second Golden Age, I don't think we'll see very many sci-fi comics.

[Green Lantern wannabe]

I think you hit the nail on the head. I have seen some evidence (not much) of superhero novels, especially of the established Marvel and DC ones. But I haven't seen any serious science fiction comics - and I'm not sure if Star Trek sells well as comic books, though I have no way of knowing that.

I definitely do think you're right - that we need another Golden Age of Science Fiction before anything more can be done. There's just no good science fiction anymore. Perhaps you and I can get the ball rolling.

[Libaax]

Who needs SF comics really ?

If i want good SF i read good SF books and if i want good superhero i read big two,image etc

Usually i read both at once.

There is no good SF anymore ? Wow thats harsh. Sure there arent as many great writers as 40s,50s,60s,70s but there are good writers just not too many of them.

Also there are many action military SF sure but the most famous ones are about culture,political ideas etc Im talking about Starship Troopers, The Forever War etc

Thats most famous SF. Of course there are many lighter works just like any genre that might be popular today but wont be remember too much.

[Roquefort Raider]

Who needs SF comics really ?

I do !!!

In fact, that's what I do in my spare time !!! :-D