Who is REALLY Nightcrawler's daddy?

[Ingonyama]

I would really like for Azazel to have been lying. But about the whole 'immortal races of angels and demons' BS.

I'm fine with him being Kurt's dad if he's just a plain old garden-variety mutant, or even a mutant-sorcerer hybrid in a similar vein to Magik. I just don't like the idea of a whole race of bad faux-Bible spinoffs; it sucks just as bad with the Neyaphem as it did with the Romulus fubar'ing of Logan's backstory.

[pepper]

How about Magneto? He could do with some more retconned kids.

[pepper]

Seriously though, I'd prefer not to have Azazel be Kurt's father. The Mystique story was fine.

[DevilishRogue]

Wolverine is his father, he got Raven pregnant when they were screwing around, which would make my love of the Logurt pairing creepy.

[Blue_Collar_Nerd]

Wolverine is his father, he got Raven pregnant when they were screwing around...

That's what I almost expected to be the big surprise in X-Men Forever. Wolverine buys the farm, Mystique pops up, joins the X-Men to be with her children and laments about Logan's death.

[DevilishRogue]

That's what I almost expected to be the big surprise in X-Men Forever. Wolverine buys the farm, Mystique pops up, joins the X-Men to be with her children and laments about Logan's death.

That would have been poetic, lol.

[Push You Down]

How about Magneto? He could do with some more retconned kids.

Poor poor in-bred Nocturne.


I'm fine with it being Azazel. I would't mind them pulling out the Mystique daddy/Destiny mommy thing for another character.

[MartinRedmond]

That's what I almost expected to be the big surprise in X-Men Forever. Wolverine buys the farm, Mystique pops up, joins the X-Men to be with her children and laments about Logan's death.

CC did say Wolverine's mom was going to show up at his funeral, she didn't. Mystique showed up a few issues later.

[DevilishRogue]

CC did say Wolverine's mom was going to show up at his funeral, she didn't. Mystique showed up a few issues later.

Perhaps he meant Nightcrawler.

[Menshevik]

I've been contemplating of late how to retcon Kurt's parentage.

Claremont's original idea for Nightcrawler's father, proposed during his collaboration with John Byrne, was longtime Dr. Strange villain Nightmare (Claremont reasoned that the dimension through which Nightcrawler travels while teleporting is the same as the dream dimension Nightmare inhabits). This idea was ultimate quashed before it saw print (or really, before it was hinted at in any way in print) by then X-Men editor and Dr. Strange writer Roger Stern, who didn't want Claremont appropriating one of Dr. Strange's main villains. John Byrne, who reportedly didn't like Claremont's insistence on complicating characters backstories and tended to get along well with Stern, didn't mind Stern axing the idea.

His initial one stymied, Claremont's second idea for Nightcrawler's parentage was that he was the son of Mystique and Destiny, with Mystique playing the role of the male in their coupling. A connection between Nightcrawler and Mystique is first suggested by the villainess during the seminal "Days of Future Past" story, in Uncanny X-Men #142, and hinted at a few more times during Claremont's run, but nothing concrete was ever established. The understanding is that when Claremont first hinted at the connection in issue #142 he fully intended to reveal the Mystique/Destiny relationship, but was continually overruled by Marvel editorial, who at the time felt a relationship of that nature wouldn't make it past the Comics Code Authority. As result, this particular origin of Nightcrawler remains nothing more than vague hints and out-universe discussions.

However, hints Claremont has dropped during a number of interviews suggest he isn�t being entirely honest with regard to his planned intentions for Kurt�s parents. And here�s why�

In the recent Chaos War: X-Men #1, written by Claremont, Moira MacTaggert reveals that Irene Adler�s quest to protect humanity led her to hire a MAN of mystery named ERIC RAVEN.

The two of them then join forces and in the X-Men: True Friends mini-series (set in Edinburgh, Scotland in the year 1936) Mystique is portrayed working alongside Logan and Irene Adler as a MAN called �Mr. Raven� (obviously the abovementioned Eric Raven).

In addition, Claremont has repeatedly stated in interviews that Raven was born a biological female, yet he tripped himself up on Comixfan back in 2003, stating that: �Mystique abandoned him [Nightcrawler] because she was totally freaked by this indigo-furred creature with �deformed� appendages and a forked tail! At that point, he stated, Mystique had no idea (s)he was a mutant, or a metamorph; (s)he simply reacted as many normal folks would in similar circumstances.�

If Mystique was not aware that (s)he was a mutant until AFTER Kurt�s birth, as Claremont above claims, and was portrayed as a male in 1936 (obviously prior to Kurt�s birth), the implication of all this is that Raven Darkholme was born a MALE and DID NOT metamorph into a female until after he impregnated Kurt�s mother.

So if Mystique was a male (i.e. Eric Raven) to begin with and was not aware �he� was a mutant when Kurt was born, this obviously means she did not transform her identity into that of a female until after his birth, and was therefore his biological father, not his mother as previously claimed.

Now given her initial male Christian name was Eric, how coincidental is it that Kurt�s supposed father Baron Wagner also had the same Christian name?!

This would suggest that since Mystique was Kurt�s biological father, (s)he was using the identity of Baron ERIC Wagner at the time.

Interesting and thought-provoking post, but I have to point out that re. Kurt's origin and Mystique/Destiny Chris Claremont contradicted himself a few times and quite evidently changed his mind a few times. For instance, during his first run there were two accounts of how Kurt was found by the Szardoses as a baby. According to one he was found next to the body of his father, according to the other next to that of his mother. In UXM #170 it is stated that Mystique was born in 1953 (1783 + 170 years) in a context (the Mastermind-induced dream) that seems to exclude the possibility of her travelling back in time to the 1930s or even earlier (in the X-Treme X-Men origin, Mystique and Destiny first met ca. 1900). So what Claremont said on the matter in 2003 does not necessarily give a proper indication as to what he planned to do with Kurt, Raven and Irene over twenty years earlier when he still was partnered with John Byrne.

And thus it might actually have been the other way around, that Mystique got landed with the name Eric Raven because Kurt's father's name was established as Eric Wagner during CC's first run.

Note: Chris Claremont gave Kurt's father's name as Eric Wagner, not Baron Eric Wagner. Oddly enough using the English version of the name, not the Scandinavian (Erik) or German one (Erich) - although one probably should not read too more into that than a degree of uncertainty regarding the spelling of foreign names, vide Yashida/Yoshida and the (at least) three different spellings CC used for Destiny's first name (Irené, Irenie, Irene, whatever). The baron part was another unnecessary, clich�d addition by another writer who evidently lacked the imagination to think there might be non-aristocratic Germans. And who - like Len Wein in GSXM #1 - seems to be most comfortable in imagining continental Europe in a semi-feudal state of society.

[MartinRedmond]

Perhaps he meant Nightcrawler.

No it was specific, Wolverine's mom was going to show up at the funeral. That doesn't mean she's Mystique of course.

[Regino]

No it was specific, Wolverine's mom was going to show up at the funeral. That doesn't mean she's Mystique of course.

Is there a debate that Wolverine's mom is someone other than Mystique?

[Monty_Cristo]

Astra was the father.

[pepper]

Poor poor in-bred Nocturne.

Pietro can't have all the fun.

[Scarlet Silence]

I feel it is just fine having Azazel as the father.