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  1. #1
    Senior Member suttercain's Avatar
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    Default Finally... a leader with some sense: Legalize Drugs!

    The other day I was happy to read that Congressman Barney Frank introduced, HR 5843, a bill that would decriminalize marijuana for people carrying 100 grams. Without a doubt this is a rational, logical step in the right direction.

    Now today I come across an article on President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner of Argentina calling for all drug use to be decriminalized! This is what us as Americans need to do. The drug war has failed! Religious freaks and conservatives need to but out of personal choices of people who are not committing any violent crime! I wish she'd take it a step further and legalize the sale of.

    I am only 30 and I hope I live long enough to see America adopt logical laws that actually make sense. We tout about freedom yet we are not free.

    I love people who drink alcohol argue that marijuana should remain illegal. I love people who support less government yet support laws that bar personal freedom. Define Hypocrisy.

    Source:
    http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/americ...ugs/index.html

    also check out:
    http://www.reason.tv

  2. #2
    Clean air & water please mgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suttercain View Post
    I love people who drink alcohol argue that marijuana should remain illegal.
    it has been proven that alcohol does not have a residual effect, while things like marijuana can cause such things days after the person has 'used' them, you know. ;)

    it all sounds good, but society would fall. there would be too many lawsuits, people would protest being screened and people would die from those addicted to certain, legal, drugs. that is why they are illegal in the states. and why they were stopped when they were.

    it's not the legality I have the problem with, it's the punishments fitting of the crimes that I think is very uneven.

  3. #3
    internet pope howyadoin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suttercain View Post
    I am only 30 and I hope I live long enough to see America adopt logical laws that actually make sense.
    I do, too. I'm not holding my breath, though.
    howyadoin?
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  4. #4
    Hardcover addict dupont2005's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgs View Post
    it has been proven that alcohol does not have a residual effect, while things like marijuana can cause such things days after the person has 'used' them, you know. ;)

    it all sounds good, but society would fall. there would be too many lawsuits, people would protest being screened and people would die from those addicted to certain, legal, drugs. that is why they are illegal in the states. and why they were stopped when they were.

    it's not the legality I have the problem with, it's the punishments fitting of the crimes that I think is very uneven.
    alcohol withdraws are often fatal. more people die annually from alcohol abuse than heroin or cocaine abuse. but that doesn't even matter. i don't care how dangerous a substance is, its not the governments place to tell us if we can ingest it or not. if i feel like chugging draino thats my choice, and if phizer was cooking meth it would be fda approved

  5. #5
    Senior Member suttercain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgs View Post
    there would be too many lawsuits, people would protest being screened and people would die from those addicted to certain, legal, drugs. that is why they are illegal in the states. and why they were stopped when they were.
    Oxycodone?

  6. #6
    Clean air & water please mgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dupont2005 View Post
    i don't care how dangerous a substance is, its not the governments place to tell us if we can ingest it or not. if i feel like chugging draino thats my choice, and if phizer was cooking meth it would be fda approved
    a. suicide is illegal.
    b. everyone flips the bill for your dumbass if you survive and have to be evacuated to a hospital for emergency care. ;)

    believe it or not, for religious reasons or not, almost eveyrthing you do will affect others in this society.

  7. #7
    Hardcover addict dupont2005's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgs View Post
    a. suicide is illegal.
    b. everyone flips the bill for your dumbass if you survive and have to be evacuated to a hospital for emergency care. ;)

    believe it or not, for religious reasons or not, almost eveyrthing you do will affect others in this society.
    a) i have my own medical insurance
    b) like i said, its not the governments place to tell me what i can and cannot ingest
    c) if drugs are against your religion don't take them. my freedom of religion ensures i am not bound by your religions doctrine
    d) if danger is the issue then check out these numbers

    ANNUAL AMERICAN DEATHS CAUSED BY DRUGS

    TOBACCO ........................ 400,000
    ALCOHOL ........................ 100,000
    ALL LEGAL DRUGS ................ 20,000
    ALL ILLEGAL DRUGS .............. 15,000
    CAFFEINE ....................... 2,000
    ASPIRIN ........................ 500
    MARIJUANA ...................... 0
    ----------------------------------------
    Source: United States government...
    National Institute on Drug Abuse,
    Bureau of Mortality Statistics

  8. #8
    Clean air & water please mgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dupont2005 View Post
    a) i have my own medical insurance
    d) if danger is the issue then check out these numbers

    ANNUAL AMERICAN DEATHS CAUSED BY DRUGS
    </p>
    keep on ingesting illegal/harmful things, you'll not have insurance for long. ;)

    see, the thing is, those numbers don't tell any stories. lives ruined by tobacco and aspirin? I bet they are far outweighed by those who have abused illegal drugs and marijuana. (edited)

    again, it's not necessarily the drugs that I have a problem with, that's a personal thing. if people want to drug themselves stupid, who am I to argue, but it's the penalties that I think are too much. Possession? Does that really deserve jail time? Maybe a fine would be best?
    Last edited by mgs; 08-02-2008 at 05:43 PM.

  9. #9
    That one guy. Serik's Avatar
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    The War on Drugs is one of the stupidest things this government has ever done. This bill is a positive first step.
    "Everybody, sooner or later, sits down to a banquet of consequences." - Robert Louis Stevenson

  10. #10
    Clean air & water please mgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serik View Post
    The War on Drugs is one of the stupidest things this government has ever done. This bill is a positive first step.
    the war on drugs is a hard, losing battle. but I still side with the more conservative aspects of allowing them to be freely used in society.

  11. #11
    From putty 2 orange Ontir's Avatar
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    Decriminalization is the only way to go. Prohibition didn't work for alchohol, it only created a rift between law enforcement and the general public which might've healed if they hadn't tried the same dumb-ass policy with pot, et al.

    You can't legislate people into sobriety, and you can't stop people from doing something that makes them feel good. If you could, there wouldn't be teen pregnancy. Legalize drugs, punish people for the damage they do to property and other people, stop over-loading our prison systems, and quit wasting vast amounts of dollars on this stupid, pointless "war on drugs!"

    And I say this as someone who hasn't ever had a puff of a joint.
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    Civilly disobeying the law of gravity.

  12. #12
    Hardcover addict dupont2005's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgs View Post
    </p>
    keep on ingesting illegal/harmful things, you'll not have insurance for long. ;)

    see, the thing is, those numbers don't tell any stories. lives ruined by tobacco and aspirin? I bet they are far outweighed by those who have abused illegal drugs and marijuana. (edited)

    again, it's not necessarily the drugs that I have a problem with, that's a personal thing. if people want to drug themselves stupid, who am I to argue, but it's the penalties that I think are too much. Possession? Does that really deserve jail time? Maybe a fine would be best?
    i don't even smoke marijuana or even like to be around others when they do. i hate the smell. that does not mean i think it should be outlawed while doctors perscribe lithium to hyper kids and viagra to 20 year olds in perfect health just because they feel like taking a recreational sex enhancement narcotic, or while alcohol is perfectly legal to purchase at the store regardless of the fact that it kills an insane amount of people who both use or get in the way of a driver who uses, and destroys the lives of those around them just as efficiently as heroin would. i personally do not see a difference between junkies and alcoholics, except that alcoholics are acting within the law

  13. #13
    Clean air & water please mgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ontir View Post
    Decriminalization is the only way to go. Prohibition didn't work for alchohol, it only created a rift between law enforcement and the general public which might've healed if they hadn't tried the same dumb-ass policy with pot, et al.

    And I say this as someone who hasn't ever had a puff of a joint.
    the comparison is wrong. while people are willing to deal with drunks, they know the general dangers of drugs and know how it effects people. no one wants to live in drug ridden neighborhoods. the only ones fighting law enforcement on drugs are those who are doing illegal things.

    & no you can't control society, but general rules are not a bad thing either. people act like all rules are bad, but they're not. while it's easy to blame those who make the rules, why not simply blame those who cannot even control themselves and their own base appetites?

    you've never done smoked a joint? why not? if you are against the rules what's to stop you? would you get hooked? maybe. but who's to say.

  14. #14
    Hardcover addict dupont2005's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgs View Post
    the comparison is wrong. while people are willing to deal with drunks, they know the general dangers of drugs and know how it effects people. no one wants to live in drug ridden neighborhoods. the only ones fighting law enforcement on drugs are those who are doing illegal things.

    & no you can't control society, but general rules are not a bad thing either. people act like all rules are bad, but they're not. while it's easy to blame those who make the rules, why not simply blame those who cannot even control themselves and their own base appetites?

    you've never done smoked a joint? why not? if you are against the rules what's to stop you? would you get hooked? maybe. but who's to say.
    what were alcohol neighborhoods like during prohibition? how would marijuana legalization make a nice town into a drug ridden neighborhood? the most metropolitan areas of california have multiple cannabis dispensaries. and rules are good when they ensure the rights of others, but smoking weed in the privacy of your own home has zero effect on your neighbors. its a law very similar to the anti-sodomy laws we all think are medieval and laughable today


    out of curiosity, do you support alcohol prohibition? why or why not?

  15. #15
    Clean air & water please mgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dupont2005 View Post
    i don't even smoke marijuana or even like to be around others when they do.
    again, it's one of those things that it's hard to take an argument seriously from someone who won't even take a drug they fight so hard for. Have you lived in poor neighborhoods? Surely you know what drugs can do. By drugs, it's not only the things people are fighting, it's the pushers, the business and the way it ruins people's lives that is being fought. Until it's all legalized, I find it hard to side with those who would hurt or kill others, just to sell or buy a drug.

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