It's Not Easy Being Blue: Nightcrawler Appreciation

[Sundowhn]

Agreed, though, that Logan doesn't really look like he's been "struggling" against his nature/victimhood all that hard, lately...

Nope, he seems to be embracing it
.

What about Kurt, though? How responsible is he for his own ignorance? It take two to make a toxic relationship, after all. Perhaps his too-ready forgiveness and need to be everyone's buddy was also part of the problem... I mean, Kurt's been around enough that he should be a bit smarter about navigating some of these ethical conflicts, as well.

The thing I kind of like about their relationship is the element of toxic-ness, though--the idea that what connects them is that their worldviews are both incomplete/inadequate, and that there is potential for healing/wholeness together but also potential for the relationship to move them both further away from where they should be. Neither one of them is as "stable" as someone like Beast, for instance, who's far more capable of navigating his own personal problems/feelings of inadequacy (which are sort of a mixture of Kurt's and Logan's), and is thus more capable of making rational, active, ethical decisions.

This is something I've been thinking about and looking into a lot lately (in the interest of a story).

A big thing with Wolverine's character over the years has been his role as mentor to younger X-Men, most notably teen-aged girls. In reading over the earliest issues of the "all new" X-Men (as they were called back in the day), it seems like the first hint of this role actually appeared with Kurt, to be refined later with Kitty. It wasn't in the almost parental form it later took with the girls, but the protectiveness, and trying to get a still young Kurt to accept himself and improve his abilities was already present. Jump forward twenty-five years, and it almost seems as though that role has been reversed, with Kurt being the mentor for Logan.

Instead of a mentor for survival, or age-related experience, Kurt seems almost to have fallen into the role as a mentor for being a man, as in someone with human compassion. When Logan had particular trouble with the beast within, who did he always turn to? Kurt. When he tried to make sense of his chaotic thoughts/feelings/actions, who did he ask for guidance? Kurt. I don't think Logan saw his friend in this role consciously- his pride probably wouldn't have let him - but it was there all the same. Maybe on some level, Kurt knew it, and that is why he never turned his back on Logan, no matter how angry he got. Just my theory.

[Sundowhn]

I think if Logan appeared in a smaller number of books and was written by 1 person instead of 20, he would be a lot more consistent of a character.

Amen to that!!!

[DevilishRogue]

Well, Logan *was* a victim, but now he's perfectly aware in many of his actions and not controlled at all. When I say Martyr, I'm talking about what he says "I lied to my friends for you, I killed for you" or "Saving the world like I always do, kid" before trying to kill Wanda then go after Wicaan. And how some of his fans talk about him or blame Scott for everything.

I dont think Kurt was ignorant, the last Kurt knew Logan was still the man trying to controll the bloodthirsty animal. Not a leader of X-Force. Kurt hads made many rational life-death descisions leading Excalibur I thought. Again speaking of Kurt being ignorant puts some blame on Kurt where he doesn'rt deserve it and just seems like another way to not hold Logan responsible for his own actions. With the times Logan has attacked Kurt I dont think he has any unrealistic notions about him but appreciates his struggle and his attempt to be a better person, and he supports that. Right, Kurt has never been very judgmental with his friends, he's too empathetic, but he does step up to the plate when nessessary and stick to his guns. i would like to see Kurt break away from the X-Men for his own good because otherwise he'll look like a fool and a doormatt. Just my 2 cents.

[DevilishRogue]

It has been about 10 years since I have read any Xmen stories with any consistency. I have pick up some story arcs here and there but not steadily. What are some of Kurt's best stories in the last 12 years?

Of course I picked up his death issue. Broke my heart at his funeral when Logan finally spoke," “Kurt was the only guy that ever looked me in the eyes like a man, and spoke to me like one, and treated me like one… he was my best friend and he never treated me like a damn animal.” Fraction wrote a very good issue.

I think you'd like the X-Infernus mini thats been collected into a hard cover. :-]

[M.Hammerman]

I dont think Kurt was ignorant, the last Kurt knew Logan was still the man trying to controll the bloodthirsty animal. Not a leader of X-Force. Kurt hads made many rational life-death descisions leading Excalibur I thought. Again speaking of Kurt being ignorant puts some blame on Kurt where he doesn'rt deserve it and just seems like another way to not hold Logan responsible for his own actions. With the times Logan has attacked Kurt I dont think he has any unrealistic notions about him but appreciates his struggle and his attempt to be a better person, and he supports that. Right, Kurt has never been very judgmental with his friends, he's too empathetic, but he does step up to the plate when nessessary and stick to his guns. i would like to see Kurt break away from the X-Men for his own good because otherwise he'll look like a fool and a doormatt. Just my 2 cents.

I certainly don't want to "blame" Kurt... I love Kurt! (As do well all!) To be honest, I think I'm just trying to rationalize the weird behaviour/writing of Kurt leading up to Second Coming. But... I do think it's a least a bit characteristic of Kurt to systematically ignore things he doesn't want to deal with to his own personal/professional (?) detriment (Mystique--in general and in terms of Logan's dealings with her--comes to mind...). All of the "active" bad stuff, though, is definitely on Logan's end.

It's interesting that Karl brought up X-Men: The End since it did show a future where Kurt left the X-Men and it seemed to be a good choice for him... But then, I always feel like as much as he thinks he wants to leave, he'd be totally bored if he did. That Manifest Destiny single issue where he went to the Nightcrawler Museum seemed pretty typical: ie. he's dissatisfied with the X-Men until he goes and does some swashbuckling and makes out with a girl, which suddenly makes it all worthwhile. In fact, that issue was very similar to Uncanny X-Men #204 where he's having that crisis of faith and breaks up with Amanda; he's got this great exchange with the Princess he rescues (which actually takes place in #206) where she's like, "I feel sorry for you because you're a thrill-addict," and his response is just like, "I don't know what she's talking about--my life is awesome!" (scan attached!)

To sum up... I don't think Kurt is perfect. But part of the reason he's so appealing are his faults, which are usually about being too romantic and/or caring too much--and who doesn't sympathize with that?

@ Sundowhn--glad to hear about this "new story"... :)

[DevilishRogue]

Of course he's not perfect, he'd be boring that way. He's got some intimacy issues like Logan.

Does Kurt even know about Mystique? Them getting it on and him trying to kill her? Its hard to say he didnt want to face it if Logan hasn't told him about a lot of things, and yes I agree he has some faults and avoidance but I dont think that has colored all his descisions, he seemed pretty pissed at Logan before he died. I just see him as multifaceted and I dont like that Austen panel with Cyke and Kurt. It really set him back as a character and the rest of Marvel other than CC just ran with it. Just because Kurt broke up with Amanda in a immature way doesn't mean he hasn't grown a lot since then. And what you are not ready to deal with in romance does not color not being able to deal with other things - Logans returned bloodlust , tyrant Scott, X-Force ect.. Dysfunctional relationships are partly on Kurt I agree. :-)

Also, just because he breaks away from the X-Men doesn't mean he cant have exploits. Maybe he can go back to Europe.

[Blue_Collar_Nerd]

I don't remember it going into any great detail as far as Logan's reaction to Scott's obsession with Hope until after Kurt died. It was almost as if Schism hinged on reaction to Nightcrawler's death.

No, Schism hinged on Wolverine and Cyclops trying to pecker-slap each other and dragging Jean Grey into the mix.

To me Logan is just as much to blame. He was like his second in charge - the right hand man, he didn't mind lying to his friend and sacrificing him to the "greater good", he agreed to send him ahead with Rogue knowing about Bastion while Kurt and Rogue did not know nearly as much. He sacrifices his friend for Hope and minutes after Kurt dies for her he wants to kill her. What an asshole. I dont hate Hope. The X-Men persued her, now some of them want to use her or execute her, Kurt is probably somewhere crying right now if he was real. I'm annoyed at Marvel Marketing/Editorial for insulting my intelligence. Also, Logan has been using Kurt as a transportation device while lying to him for a while now. Rememebr when he ported Logans ass out of the jail. What a jerk.

Logan is NOT an innocent victim. No one can tell him what to do. And his new School and keeping kids safe is a joke.

It's quite something the Wolverine has permeated the whole Marvel universe to such a degree that we are discussing him so damn much in a Nightcrawler thread.

I was a huge fan of Wolverine in the 90's when it was written by Larry Hama. Back then, he was quite capable of violence and more than willing to take the law into his own hands, but he had shown more restraint, There were events that tested his self control and personal restraint, especially after the immense trauma of Magneto Ripping the adamantium out of his skeleton and the ensuing psychological and physical after-effects. But he had almost always man the choice to become a better man a bit by bit at the end. It was the sign of the progress and development the character made since he was first introduced to the X-Men. In fact, it might have been an interesting contrast to see Logan develop into the paternalistic figure of reason while Cyclops lost his ethical bearing due to the various traumas and burdens he had to face. It might have been a fascinating turn on their character arcs.

Then Chris Yost and Craig Kyle came along and over the course of X-Force Vol. 3 pissed all over that character growth and continued their trend of turning almost everything they worked on into murder and torture porn. And from someone who has the X-rated cuts of Caligula and RoboCop, that's saying a lot. From all accounts I've read, they're both pretty good at adapting the story lines of others to animation, but when it came to comics, they basically recycled, re-processed, and regurgitated other characters and story elements (i.e. X-23, Predator X, Hope, etc.) and threw in a bunch of deaths and mutilations like mean spirited My Little Pony fan-fiction where Hitler Pony rounds up all the "undesirable" ponies and sells them off to a glue factory so that he could wage war against the Cabbage Patch Kids. (Hmm... On second thought, I might want to see that.) In the blink of an eye, Logan went from a world-weary cowboy on a path to redemption to a homicidal asshole from a Quentin Tarantino movie. He would smile while slicing the top of some guy's head of after interrogating him and make some token remark about how Kitty would be ashamed of him only to go off and chop up some other guy.

It's because of this that even fans of W&TXM such as myself aren't buying into the notion of Logan being the one to lead the break away faction and rebuild the school. Up until the aforementioned pecker-slapping, it would of made more sense for Wolverine to remain as Cyclops' right hand and to have someone like Kurt leave and rebuild the school.

I do hope something interesting happens with Logan soon, something that would actually represent a change (I know Remender keeps promising that or whatever but I'm not naive enough to take his word for it, obviously). I've really been enjoying Wolverine & the X-Men and it would nice for that not to be sullied by Logan's irreconcilable behaviour elsewhere. (Though it's kind of painful that every month in W&TXM they seem to print at least one letter that's like, "Nightcrawler would love this school so much--when is he coming back?" Why do they need to remind me so insistently of what might have been? Sigh...)

I just hope the they're just trying to build up anticipation for his return and that they will deliver upon soon. Of course, I remember how frustrated and disappointed Jean's fan's were after Second Coming.

I see it more as Scott sacrificed Kurt for Hope. This was where Scott's unhealthy obsession was really highlighted, probably not only for Wolverine, but for others as well (Beast had a very strong reaction, too).

It's Scott's obsession with his dead wife. Even Emma sees it.

The biggest technical issue I have with Nightcrawler's death is that he completely abandoned his normal methods of combat to achieve it. Since when did Kurt ever 'port in front of a hostile target? His MO has always been to 'port above or behind a hostile, maybe sometimes next to one. He never, ever teleported directly in front of one. That is something he might have done during his first year as an X-Man. There were perhaps half a dozen ways to save Hope in that situation that didn't involve death, but writer's just had to have that dramatic effect for their story.

Bastion initiated "Countermeasures" when Kurt teleported. Why those countermeasures caused Kurt to rematerialized in Bastions arm which kept him from killing Hope, I have no idea. But Kyle and Yost wanted another big notch on their belt, anyways.

I think if Logan appeared in a smaller number of books and was written by 1 person instead of 20, he would be a lot more consistent of a character.

I personally think that as a general rule that characters be limited to appear in a single team book and a single solo at any one time unless there was an event going on. And no inter-franchise cross-overs.

Could you imagine an Avengers movie with Howard the Duck?

[Drelion]

No, Schism hinged on Wolverine and Cyclops trying to pecker-slap each other and dragging Jean Grey into the mix.

This made me LOLIRL!

It's quite something the Wolverine has permeated the whole Marvel universe to such a degree that we are discussing him so damn much in a Nightcrawler thread.

I agree! Change of subject Ugh.

Could you imagine an Avengers movie with Howard the Duck?

Ok someone PLEASE tell me why Howard has been creeping everywhere all of a sudden. No joke I turned on the TV last week and the f'in movie was on! I nearly passed out. I haven't seen him since I was like 9yrs old and all over a sudden HE IS EVERY WHERE!

Every time I see him I hear this now...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuIQJ-l16b4

I was even looking at a marvel super universal super hero group photo...and guess who was front and center???? o_O

HE'S HAUNTING MY LIFE!!!!!!!!! Make him go away!!!!!!!!!

[DevilishRogue]

No, Schism hinged on Wolverine and Cyclops trying to pecker-slap each other and dragging Jean Grey into the mix.

Agreed. Which is odd since Logan denied her and now he has this new obsession with Jean (He seems to only want her when she's unavailable) kind of mirroring Scotts obsession with Hope.. Kurt is probably rolling his eyes somewhere.

Then Chris Yost and Craig Kyle came along and over the course of X-Force Vol. 3 pissed all over that character growth and continued their trend of turning almost everything they worked on into murder and torture porn. And from someone who has the X-rated cuts of Caligula and [I]RoboCop

Yep, me too. I'm a movie buff and I love horror and psychological horror and have seen some doozies but I dont think it's for X-Men personally. I think what made them a success was their family feel and with Kurt gone its even less so.

[TheMutantJinx]

This is great. I may have to steal this.

[Sundowhn]

I just hope the they're just trying to build up anticipation for his return and that they will deliver upon soon. Of course, I remember how frustrated and disappointed Jean's fan's were after Second Coming.

Then write letters, spam postcards, use them to tell the editors what you feel the character of Nightcrawler has brought to the X-Men books and what he would bring in the future. Make noise, often and repeatedly! (Just do this nicely, and I recommend old-fashioned paper over easily deleted computer mail.) Heck, people can even make suggestions on how to bring him back, maybe an idea will tickle their creative fancy.

As long as the noise of the fans who want shallow anti-hero characters and books all about gratuitous death and violence drowns out those of us who want and appreciate both a character and story lines with substance, nothing will change.

Personally, I am unwilling to complain about the direction of things without being willing to step up and say something where it counts.

And, so no one has to dig through the thread for the address, here it is again(separately to each one, of course):

Isaac Perlmutter, Alan Fine, Axel Alonso, Nick Lowe, Tom Brevoort
Marvel Entertainment Inc
135 W 50th St
7th Floor
New York, NY
10020

[M.Hammerman]

I did this to my Zune today (it's like an iPod but made but made by Microsoft and decommissioned now so it's retro chic... okay, now I'm just getting defensive...). I showed my bf and he said, "I bet your internet friends would like that." I think he was being sarcastic but I thought it would show him up if I took him literally. :)
Enjoy! (Because music always goes better with Nightcrawler.)
Attachment 94028

[Karl-5]

I love that speech he makes, about how wishing doesn't change anything. He's just very matter-of-fact about it. And I love the last line -- "And though I am now occasionally crazy, I am not insane."

That was one of the things I put up on my bedroom wall, with special emphasis on that line. :-)

[Karl-5]

And I;m hoping Logan faces some consequences too, some REAL consequences for his actions, instead of being seen as some poor martyr.

Well, he did face some of the consequences when the Red Right Hand manipulated him into unknowingly killing his own children. Logan was really broken up over that, being driven to keep throwing himself off a cliff just in order to achieve a brief time of unconsciousness before he healed and had to face what he'd done again. I found that particularly heart-breaking.

[Karl-5]

i would like to see Kurt break away from the X-Men for his own good because otherwise he'll look like a fool and a doormatt. Just my 2 cents.

But what would Kurt do after that, in order to justify his continuing to be in the comics?