It's Not Easy Being Blue: Nightcrawler Appreciation

[March Hare]

I thought that was a commonly known thing, the same with Gambit and Longshot (to a lesser degree, as he was not as popular a character).

Perhaps not, but years ago in my country, Longshot got third place in a survey --only behind Wolverine and Spiderman! Have I already said I'm a big fan of that bittersweet anarchic alien ?

I remember either Dave or Paty talking about it unofficially. Dave had said he was surprised at how much comment he got from female readers about the character early on, and then Claremont developed it further.

Girls are smart --and CC too! Kurt is (was *sigh*) the living sign of superiority of both freshness and maturity above archetypal characters. An endless personality.

And what about gay fans? Does it all come with the Logurt thing? Nah, I bet they appreciated him right from the start.

[DevilishRogue]

And what about gay fans? Does it all come with the Logurt thing? Nah, I bet they appreciated him right from the start.

No. Its not just Logurt. Kurt has had gay fans prior to its popularity and there are some that like Kurt but dont like the Logurt pairing. I did a poll of hottest X-Male a long time ago and it went in this order 1st place Gambit, close 2cd place (by a couple of votes) Nightcrawler, and Wolverine was in 3rd place.

[smiling4ever]

No. Its not just Logurt. Kurt has had gay fans prior to its popularity and there are some that like Kurt but dont like the Logurt pairing. I did a poll of hottest X-Male a long time ago and it went in this order 1st place Gambit, close 2cd place (by a couple of votes) Nightcrawler, and Wolverine was in 3rd place.

Nice Fanart
but something always bugs me about Kurt's fanart or drawings..It is his feet.
doesn't he like have that thing on the back of his foot to help him crouch on things like bars..Idk know if that is considered a toe,just the back of his foot,or part of his heel.

[graffiX]

So does anyone REALLY think Aaron is going to be bringing 616 Kurt back in WaTXM?

Besides the return of Azazel, there really isn't any other hints that he will be. Seems to be more wishful thinking on our parts.

I just don't want to get my hopes up.

[Sundowhn]

Nice Fanart
but something always bugs me about Kurt's fanart or drawings..It is his feet.
doesn't he like have that thing on the back of his foot to help him crouch on things like bars..Idk know if that is considered a toe,just the back of his foot,or part of his heel.

Yes, he does. To me, it looks like an extra toe or maybe something similar to how birds' feet are formed. He's been shown using it like a thumb of sorts, like when griping a sword with his foot. A lot of artists seem to skip over it, even in the books. Noto, for example, just draws him as two-toed with normal heels. Some artists have even put him in normal shoes, which would seem like they'd be awfully uncomfortable.

[Sundowhn]

So does anyone REALLY think Aaron is going to be bringing 616 Kurt back in WaTXM?

Besides the return of Azazel, there really isn't any other hints that he will be. Seems to be more wishful thinking on our parts.

I just don't want to get my hopes up.

I've been thinking about this since I read that latest WatXM interview. He could still just be taunting NC fans -- we've certainly gotten enough of that. The biggest arc might just refer to using Azazel with the Hellfire Academy, though he did specifically say Azazel was surrouned by red bamfs, and then separately talked about the ones at the school. He's been saying since last year that the truth of the bamfs would be addressed in 2013.

Kurt was mentioned again in passing in the last issue. Does anyone else find it a little too obvious that first Kitty and now Storm refuse to acknowledge a similarity between the bamfs and Kurt? Both have now talked about them without even mentioning how they are small replicas of a man they both cared for deeply. Obviously, Logan hasn't either, though maybe the scent is different enough that they wouldn't link to Kurt in his mind.

My gut tells me that if he's going to be brought back, it will be this year, with this lead in. Editorial would want something unique, if they agreed to allow him to return. We won't have one like with Colossus or Betsy, where they just show up again, I think. Kurt's death was considered too "meaningful" for that. A writer would've had to really sell the idea, even if Kurt ranked only behind Storm in most popular/beloved X-Men of all time in a recent poll. They would also start hinting at it or pushing remembrance and notice of the character way ahead of time, to capitalize on sales and interest.

The subject of the character is showing up more and more often on boards (even other than CBR), and blogs. X-Termination could be stated to be Nightcrawler focused, though Marvel is using two other versions of him for it. Still, it's media attention and putting the imagery out there. Why now? Heck, even the preview for X-Treme #9 is full of Nightcrawlers!

I think if Kidcrawler ends the arc by coming back to 616 somehow, we can forget the original returning. Their roles have been/would be too similar, as I think Pak at least intended for the kid to be a kind of comic relief with some heart added. We'd have about as much chance of getting the real one back as Jean Grey fans have of getting the original Jean back, now that the teen version is installed. :(

If the arc ends with Kidcrawler gone or settled in another universe, Darkholme in limbo, remaining in AoA or as a dedicated villain in 616(a la Dark Beast), then odds have just gotten higher that the original might be on his way. To retain ownership of the intellectual property, he has to remain in use somewhere, otherwise Paty Cockrum gets full rights and can do what she wants with him.

TL:DR version: I'm tentatively hopeful, but not holding my breath.

The scans are from last issue, so SPOILER WARNING.

[March Hare]

Yes, he does. To me, it looks like an extra toe or maybe something similar to how birds' feet are formed. He's been shown using it like a thumb of sorts, like when griping a sword with his foot. A lot of artists seem to skip over it, even in the books. Noto, for example, just draws him as two-toed with normal heels. Some artists have even put him in normal shoes, which would seem like they'd be awfully uncomfortable.

Can't search pics now, but Davis draw even a third nail in his extra toes. Besides, Kurt himself said many times he usually could not bear footwear, and once he told Betsy he never could try skiing because he couldn't find fitting boots.

[March Hare]

To retain ownership of the intellectual property, he has to remain in use somewhere, otherwise Paty Cockrum gets full rights and can do what she wants with him.

Ha! That would be a nice bit of poetic justice .

[DevilishRogue]

I love how Storm refers to Kurt as "Poor Kurt" it seems so disconnected much like Emmas words on Kurt to Kitty. So cold. Ugh. And Logan has no response to the mention of his name or the bamfs he just goes on to make out with Storm instead of putting together the importance of the bamfs... HULLLO y'know the ones that look just like your BF. Go find him! Tool. But then again he could care less when Kitty was stuck in a bullet. That was left for Kurt and Piotr.

Wow. Storm and Logan always did it in the danger room? Sounds like some Logurt fics. Someones been sniffing around the boards.

[Sundowhn]

Wow. Storm and Logan always did it in the danger room? Sounds like some Logurt fics. Someones been sniffing around the boards.

Somehow I knew it was her he was referring to in that comment from the Wolverine Goes to Hell arc. :P

I agree with the disconnect. It's just not....logical.

[DevilishRogue]

Somehow I knew it was her he was referring to in that comment from the Wolverine Goes to Hell arc. :P

I agree with the disconnect. It's just not....logical.

Logurt and Kurroro damage control?

[graffiX]

I've been thinking about this since I read that latest WatXM interview. He could still just be taunting NC fans -- we've certainly gotten enough of that. The biggest arc might just refer to using Azazel with the Hellfire Academy, though he did specifically say Azazel was surrouned by red bamfs, and then separately talked about the ones at the school. He's been saying since last year that the truth of the bamfs would be addressed in 2013.

Kurt was mentioned again in passing in the last issue. Does anyone else find it a little too obvious that first Kitty and now Storm refuse to acknowledge a similarity between the bamfs and Kurt? Both have now talked about them without even mentioning how they are small replicas of a man they both cared for deeply. Obviously, Logan hasn't either, though maybe the scent is different enough that they wouldn't link to Kurt in his mind.

My gut tells me that if he's going to be brought back, it will be this year, with this lead in. Editorial would want something unique, if they agreed to allow him to return. We won't have one like with Colossus or Betsy, where they just show up again, I think. Kurt's death was considered too "meaningful" for that. A writer would've had to really sell the idea, even if Kurt ranked only behind Storm in most popular/beloved X-Men of all time in a recent poll. They would also start hinting at it or pushing remembrance and notice of the character way ahead of time, to capitalize on sales and interest.

The subject of the character is showing up more and more often on boards (even other than CBR), and blogs. X-Termination could be stated to be Nightcrawler focused, though Marvel is using two other versions of him for it. Still, it's media attention and putting the imagery out there. Why now? Heck, even the preview for X-Treme #9 is full of Nightcrawlers!

I think if Kidcrawler ends the arc by coming back to 616 somehow, we can forget the original returning. Their roles have been/would be too similar, as I think Pak at least intended for the kid to be a kind of comic relief with some heart added. We'd have about as much chance of getting the real one back as Jean Grey fans have of getting the original Jean back, now that the teen version is installed. :(

If the arc ends with Kidcrawler gone or settled in another universe, Darkholme in limbo, remaining in AoA or as a dedicated villain in 616(a la Dark Beast), then odds have just gotten higher that the original might be on his way. To retain ownership of the intellectual property, he has to remain in use somewhere, otherwise Paty Cockrum gets full rights and can do what she wants with him.

TL:DR version: I'm tentatively hopeful, but not holding my breath.

The scans are from last issue, so SPOILER WARNING.

Good post. Well thought out. And I think you're right about Kidcralwer (if he ends up here in 616). I just hope this isn't the case. I tried to like AoA Nightcrawler, but it just wasn't the same.

I want 616 Nightcrawler. Not an alternate version, not a kid version, not hundreds of miniature versions (Bamfs). I want the one, true original.

And I've heard several people say IF he does come back they don't want him in Wolverine and the X-Men. I think that would be the PERFECT place for him. Personally I'm not enjoying that book much anymore, but having Kurt in it would enhance it so much for me.

[Sundowhn]

Logurt and Kurroro damage control?

I'm not sure I follow, exactly. If you mean Marvel being careful to not imply that Kurt and Logan's relationship was anything but a friendship in 616, then maybe, though that's not been indicated in the books anyway, imo, any more than Kurt and Kitty having a romantic relationship. Both have just been presented as close friendships. Howlett worked out fairly well, and I could see the pairing in an AU, but I doubt they'll have mainstream Logan in a gay relationship any time soon. Marvel is just getting to the point of writing B/C-list characters as something other than hetero.

In the arc there had been a door labelled "X-Women I've Had Sex With" (or something along those lines), then there was a comment about sex in the danger room. My first guess was Storm, second was Psylocke.

[Sundowhn]

Good post. Well thought out. And I think you're right about Kidcralwer (if he ends up here in 616). I just hope this isn't the case. I tried to like AoA Nightcrawler, but it just wasn't the same.

With Kidcrawler, I feel like Pak over looked pretty much all of the aspects that made Nightcrawler who he was as a character, even the imagery was based on Evo. Waggoner is just a token side-kick kid with typical youth-centric dialogue. The only similarity is that he's a blue teleporter with a similar name. AoA Nightcrawler is the negative of Kurt Wagner, an opposite reflection. I do actually like the character, but I prefer him to be used as a sympathetic villain, not just another anti-hero. He could be a unique addition to the roster of bad guys, but is just one of a multitude of anti-heroes in a genre already glutted with them.

I want 616 Nightcrawler. Not an alternate version, not a kid version, not hundreds of miniature versions (Bamfs). I want the one, true original.

Agree.

And I've heard several people say IF he does come back they don't want him in Wolverine and the X-Men. I think that would be the PERFECT place for him. Personally I'm not enjoying that book much anymore, but having Kurt in it would enhance it so much for me.

Agree again. I don't want him to end up under Logan's boot heel in any way, but if he were written well and true to character, I feel like he'd have a thing or two to say to his old friend about the handling of the school, the X-Men, his method of handling kids with "do as I say, not as I do", his notions of Xavier's dream and Schism. I'd love to see that. If any character was born for the role of headmaster or the one to carry on that part of Xavier's dream, it's 616 Kurt. Look at the dynamics in Excalibur, as an example. You had Brian, written as first an incompetent drunkard then as someone with too much self-loathing to worry over anyone but himself, Meggan, written as very child-like and innocent in her personality, then Kitty and Rachel who were both actual teens as the time. Kurt was the only "grown-up", and essentially took on the role to look after everyone else (working through his own self-esteem issues in the process). He didn't do it by dominating them, though, or making them feel less. Yeah, I feel like he'd make a great addition to the book, if Aaron did his homework on how to write the character.

[DevilishRogue]

I'm not sure I follow, exactly. If you mean Marvel being careful to not imply that Kurt and Logan's relationship was anything but a friendship in 616, then maybe, though that's not been indicated in the books anyway, imo, any more than Kurt and Kitty having a romantic relationship. Both have just been presented as close friendships. Howlett worked out fairly well, and I could see the pairing in an AU, but I doubt they'll have mainstream Logan in a gay relationship any time soon. Marvel is just getting to the point of writing B/C-list characters as something other than hetero.

In the arc there had been a door labelled "X-Women I've Had Sex With" (or something along those lines), then there was a comment about sex in the danger room. My first guess was Storm, second was Psylocke.

Yes I read the issue. And I know the "Hell" arc. I was being flip.

They are asserting his masculinity and how Logan will always be the first and last man for the X-Ladies and no one was in between. They are all really just lusting after Logan. And there was no real ties at all between Kurt and Ororo no closeness, he is just poor dead Kurt. Of course its in a WatX book. So that should rest my case.