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  1. #5626
    BAMF Brigade Sundowhn's Avatar
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    I think it had more to do with the writer at the time, than anything. He was really pushing Pixie for awhile. It wasn't to the same extent he did Scott/Emma and Hope, but it was there. During that period, there were three new characters getting the nudge for more prominence...Hope (to replace Jean), Pixie (who was written taking Nightcrawler's role on the team -- keep in mind, he'd not been used as anything other than transportation and Wolverine's confessor for several years by then), and X-23 (never to replace Wolverine, but more to try and cash in on the character's popularity). If the writer hadn't already made the choice to use Kurt as blue wallpaper and revert him completely back to the priest crap, it probably wouldn't have been perceived as an attempt to replace. Pixie's personality is kind of like a young Dazzler with a dash of Magik, and her visual is similar to Blink in some ways. Other writers had used Nightcrawler as more of a presence on the team, but the writer of the time really only pictured him to develop Wolverine on occasion, or as transport.
    I can recall one mentor issue with them, and she was shown to exceed him in everything he tried to teach her, but experience.

  2. #5627
    Curioser and curioser March Hare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sundowhn View Post
    I can recall one mentor issue with them, and she was shown to exceed him in everything he tried to teach her, but experience.
    ...in X-Infernus #1 --right before stab him in his chest! Ouch! Why people treat so bad our poor faun?

  3. #5628
    Guardian Angel IndigoLady8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMutantJinx View Post
    I know exactly how you feel! I've been ridiculously busy lately--
    Me too. Now that I've got a couple weeks off, I have a lot of catching up to do.
    The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination. Albert Einstein

  4. #5629
    Member M.Hammerman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMutantJinx View Post
    I agree on that. I dunno if I've said this already, but I would've loved to see more of a mentor/student dynamic between Kurt and Pixie. It's something that could've been interesting, storywise and character development-wise.
    Agreed. It might have been nice if it had worked out that way; Pixie's can such a little sociopath, though (for good or bad--I don't really have strong feelings about her one way or another). Here's some Pixie/Kurt stuff, from Nation X and X-Infernus. I love the way Giuseppe C. did Kurt's feet and hands in the second pic. And that hug in the third pic is simply adorable. What makes Kurt so damn huggable? Is it the hands, the fur, the personality, or just the whole mess put together? :P




  5. #5630
    Member 35293 nikbackm's Avatar
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    http://www.formspring.me/TomBrevoort...52536004416898

    Do you agree with Tom Brevoort; was Excalibur largely to blame for Nightcrawler's decline as an active character?

  6. #5631
    Curioser and curioser March Hare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M.Hammerman View Post
    What makes Kurt so damn huggable? Is it the hands, the fur, the personality, or just the whole mess put together? :P
    There's a lot of hugs in my tribute to Nightcrawler from 2:51 on :

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEA-pSnTUFs

    I like very much Giuseppe Camuncoli art, too.

    BTW, Kurt seems to be prone to mystic attacks that keep him apparently dead, isn't he?

  7. #5632
    Member M.Hammerman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikbackm View Post
    http://www.formspring.me/TomBrevoort...52536004416898

    Do you agree with Tom Brevoort; was Excalibur largely to blame for Nightcrawler's decline as an active character?
    Honestly, I'm so passed anything that guy has to say about anything. He's such a colossal tool. I feel like there's a term for his strategy of answering fan questions... It's not "passive-aggressive," but it's something like that. He's like a person who fights to validate the grain of truth in stereotypes--something he'd say is "enriching the argument" when all it's really doing is insulting people and making them angry.

    Arguing Excalibur precipitated Nightcrawler's decline as a character is like saying the reason Kitty isn't doing more superheroing these days is because her boobs are too small or something--while there's a twisted "grain of truth" to both those statements, what they really point out are the flaws in the industry, not the characters.

    Quote Originally Posted by March Hare View Post
    There's a lot of hugs in my tribute to Nightcrawler from 2:51 on :

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEA-pSnTUFs

    I like very much Giuseppe Camuncoli art, too.

    BTW, Kurt seems to be prone to mystic attacks that keep him apparently dead, isn't he?
    Thanks! I was thinking how much I wanted to stare at a theme-spam of Kurt hugs, but couldn't face the enormity of putting it together. Re-watching that vid was much, much better :)
    Last edited by M.Hammerman; 12-14-2012 at 08:47 AM.

  8. #5633
    BAMF Brigade Sundowhn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikbackm View Post
    http://www.formspring.me/TomBrevoort...52536004416898

    Do you agree with Tom Brevoort; was Excalibur largely to blame for Nightcrawler's decline as an active character?
    He has a certain degree of a point, considering the writer angle when Kurt returned to the main book. Though I do think he would probably never have gotten a time to shine so bright if he hadn't been in Excalibur. They were all about pushing what compelling leaders Cyclops, Storm, and to a lesser degree, Warren were that they decided to make Kurt a priest to get him out of the way. Austen's attempt to focus on Kurt backfired badly in the Draco arc -- not because of the character or really even the story, more the execution of the story. As soon as Quesada and Lowe firmly took the reins of the X-Men, the series became all about Cyclops with Wolverine being a nod to cash flow. Their lack of interest in stories related to Nightcrawler was profound and ensured he stayed backed into an irrelevant corner. They didn't dig him back out until they needed a shocking death to try and support the Hope Summers show.

    Btw, agree that it all shows the flaws in the industry. Nightcrawler wasn't pretty and gritty or over the top, so they didn't use him.
    Last edited by Sundowhn; 12-14-2012 at 09:51 AM.

  9. #5634
    Ahem. DevilishRogue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikbackm View Post
    http://www.formspring.me/TomBrevoort...52536004416898

    Do you agree with Tom Brevoort; was Excalibur largely to blame for Nightcrawler's decline as an active character?
    TBH, I don't find that statement very inflammatory but perhaps he could have worded it better. I think as a marketing perspective Excalibur was so far removed from the whole 90's thing with the gritting teeth, shoulder pads, pockets and horrible hairstyles that Excalibur was in a world of its own. But Kurts character was at his best even if he wasn't getting the 90's makeover treatment until much later. That was why they tried to make them more like X-Men. What happened was that what made Excalibur so popular was taken away so when Kurt went back to the X-Men he was just a British X-Character. Yet Marvel are the ones that keep pushing these silly Summers and Greys royalty bull that if no one has a stake in it or a connection they are pretty much left to the side, unless you're Wolverine (and his family). Most of the major storylines throughout the late 80-s all the way to today has been focused on those three families and its getting boring TBH. Heck, its gotten tiresome years ago. So lets cut Oscar the Grouch some slack and wait for the real dickery.

    @ March Hare, I pointed that out about Longshot a ways back and I'm wondering if that was Claremont speaking through Kurt. I remember reading that CC still had plans for those X-Men, though I could be wrong . That scene sort of reminds me of PADs Polaris/Havok scene. Its kinda glaring.
    Last edited by DevilishRogue; 12-14-2012 at 10:23 AM.

  10. #5635
    Member M.Hammerman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DevilishRogue View Post
    TBH, I don't find that statement very inflammatory but perhaps he could have worded it better. I think as a marketing perspective Excalibur was so far removed from the whole 90's thing with the gritting teeth, shoulder pads, pockets and horrible hairstyles that Excalibur was in a world of its own. But Kurts character was at his best even if he wasn't getting the 90's makeover treatment until much later. That was why they tried to make them more like X-Men. What happened was that what made Excalibur so popular was taken away so when Kurt went back to the X-Men he was just a British X-Character. Yet Marvel are the ones that keep pushing these silly Summers and Greys royalty bull that if no one has a stake in it or a connection they are pretty much left to the side, unless you're Wolverine (and his family). Most of the major storylines throughout the late 80-s all the way to today has been focused on those three families and its getting boring TBH. Heck, its gotten tiresome years ago. So lets cut Oscar the Grouch some slack and wait for the real dickery.
    You're right of course--that little comment is a long way from making the Greatest Hits of Brevoort Dickishness. It's just that his whole persona really bugs me. He does this thing where he twists things around and makes it our (ie. fans) fault rather than his fault (ie. the industry's fault). Here's what his statement sounds like to me: "You liked Excalibur? Well then it's your fault for anytime Nightcrawler sucked afterwards." I don't think he'd ever acknowledge the effects of the changes in society and the industry that you point out (at least in terms that would make himself and/or the current Marvel staff in any way culpable).

    Anyway, I need to stop talking lest I further contradict my assertion that I don't care what Tom B. says about things... Or before Brevoort exploits the fact that I'm talking about him as proof of how smart and important he is. :S
    Last edited by M.Hammerman; 12-14-2012 at 10:44 AM.

  11. #5636
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikbackm View Post
    http://www.formspring.me/TomBrevoort...52536004416898

    Do you agree with Tom Brevoort; was Excalibur largely to blame for Nightcrawler's decline as an active character?
    It's completely idiotic statement, there's only so much panel time in the core book(s) and it isn't divided evenly. A lot of the characters need to branch out into other titles to get proper development. Excalibur only enhanced Kurt.

  12. #5637
    Ahem. DevilishRogue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M.Hammerman View Post
    Here's what his statement sounds like to me: "You liked Excalibur? Well then it's your fault for anytime Nightcrawler sucked afterwards." I don't think he'd ever acknowledge the effects of the changes in society and the industry that you point out (at least in terms that would make himself and/or the current Marvel staff in any way culpable).
    I can see why you'd think that because Marvel has a tendency to blame fans a lot for everything, especially now. And creators too. The top brass has a hard time admitting their mistakes, even when fans are discussing the issues in the comic industry in a civilized manner, like availability to the product as an example, it gets disregarded with snide comments. Yes, their is a lot of fan dickery on these boards but the company has become very defensive even when there is no need to be.

    Anyway I thought this may interest some peeps.


    "Age of Apocalypse #13
    David Lapham (W)
    Roberto De La Torre (A)
    Cover by Greg Land • PROLOGUE TO X-TERMINATION!
    • AOA Nightcrawler has betrayed UNCANNY X-FORCE, what next?
    • All the threads laid since #1 converge!
    32 PGS./Parental Advisory ...$2.99




    X-Termination #1
    DAVID LAPHAM, MARJORIE LIU & GREG PAK (W) DAVID LOPEZ (A)
    Cover by ED MCGUINNESS
    THE X-TERMINATION EVENT STARTS HERE!
    • Joining together the teams from ASTONISHING X-MEN, AGE OF APOCALYPSE and X-TREME X-MEN, and spinning out of the pages of UNCANNY X-FORCE.
    • AOA Nightcrawler just wants to get home...and he doesn’t care if he takes out our world to get there.
    • Wolverine versus Nightcrawler!
    32 PGS./Rated T+ ...$3.99




    ASTONISHING X-MEN #60
    Marjorie Liu (W) • MATTEO BUFFAGNI (A)
    Cover by GIUSEPPE CAMUNCOLI
    Variant cover by PHIL NOTO
    PART 2 of X-TERMINATION EVENT!
    • With Nightcrawler wreaking havoc on the very fabric of reality, Wolverine calls in his street team.
    • Confronted with the doppelganger of their dead friend, will the team be able to do what’s necessary to stop him?
    • Wolverine versus Wolverine!?
    32 PGS./Rated T+ ...$3.99"


    So Logan may be forced to kill someone close to him? Again? (C'mon Marvel a new theme plz, mkay?) I doubt Logan would have a problem. Like the X-Men gave a shit about 616 Kurt? Hopefully this Kurt will get a better funeral? Why would AoA Kurt go to such murderous lengths just to get home when he talked about saving a world that wasn't his?
    Last edited by DevilishRogue; 12-14-2012 at 12:42 PM.

  13. #5638
    Ahem. DevilishRogue's Avatar
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    Ok, I'm just reposting these pages because I adore them.










  14. #5639
    BAMF Brigade Sundowhn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DevilishRogue View Post

    So Logan may be forced to kill someone close again? I doubt Logan would have a problem. Like the X-Men gave a shit about 616 Kurt? Hopefully this Kurt will get a better funeral? Why would AoA Kurt go to such murderous lengths just to get home when he talked about saving a world that wasn't his?
    Interviews with Liu and Lapham give me some hope for the crossover. Liu seems genuinely interested in writing Darkholme, and it appears as though this may end up as some sort of redemption for the character (not to open the debate on whether or not it's warranted).
    http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=42503
    http://www.newsarama.com/comics/davi...crossover.html
    http://marvel.com/news/story/19790/w..._x-termination
    In the first one, she discusses in the interview what she perceives to be some of his motivation, as well as how she views him.

    I'm not sure what the big impact on 616 will be, but it will be interesting to see. The AoA title is basically wrapping up its storyline to date with spoilers:
    Victor being killed by Weapon Omega in the last issue and the final two issues having Jean confront her husband with something that is suppose to separate him from the Apocalypse energies.
    end of spoilers

    Again, judging by the interviews, it seems the crossover will explore more about Darkholme and his path from here.

  15. #5640
    Ahem. DevilishRogue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sundowhn View Post
    Interviews with Liu and Lapham give me some hope for the crossover. Liu seems genuinely interested in writing Darkholme, and it appears as though this may end up as some sort of redemption for the character (not to open the debate on whether or not it's warranted).
    http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=42503
    http://www.newsarama.com/comics/davi...crossover.html
    http://marvel.com/news/story/19790/w..._x-termination
    In the first one, she discusses in the interview what she perceives to be some of his motivation, as well as how she views him.

    I'm not sure what the big impact on 616 will be, but it will be interesting to see. The AoA title is basically wrapping up its storyline to date with spoilers:
    Victor being killed by Weapon Omega in the last issue and the final two issues having Jean confront her husband with something that is suppose to separate him from the Apocalypse energies.
    end of spoilers

    Again, judging by the interviews, it seems the crossover will explore more about Darkholme and his path from here.
    They could have put all this effort on 616 Kurt. So it appears they really are pushing Darkholme. He may be his permanent replacement after all. Sorry, count me out. Maybe I'll get the trade waaay later.
    Last edited by DevilishRogue; 12-14-2012 at 01:01 PM.

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