It's Not Easy Being Blue: Nightcrawler Appreciation

[March Hare]

or poke dangerous, demonic, arcane objects into his flesh while he sleeps then play dumb afterwards...."Ooh, so THAT'S where I put that thing, thought I'd lost it...."
Lol....

Details, details... LOL You're right, of course. That was literally a stab in the back.

Really, though, I think they've been pretty rough on each other at different times. Kurt might have summed it up best in the solo series when he said "too much history". He was shown as pretty indecisive about her in that. In one panel, he talked about wanting to kiss her, in the next he reminded her of the reasons they'd broken up.

See? In fact, I think it was very clever of him to define the main (only?) trouble between them: "too much history", as most of lengthy couples. Pity.

[M.Hammerman]

I like that. Of course, I also am willing to chalk a lot of stuff I don't like up to Wanda being sick. She wakes up, the Vision makes her chicken soup, we find that Nightcrawler and Banshee never died, and all's right in comics again.

Ha! I knew it! Everything that's wrong with the Marvel Universe is because Wanda and Vizh broke up. W+V 4ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Whew, sorry... don't know what came over me. In recompense for that (and for missing Kurt's birthday!), here's some classic Kurmanda, to balance everything out :P



Plus... COSPLAY!


http://www.deviantart.com/moreliketh...17809#/d4w7t6o

[M.Hammerman]

Time for a Pioturt...?

I think they have some Ultimate-verse slash together...? I like Pete, but he's also kind of like Bobby for me--depends on the situation and who's writing him. Deep, compassionate friendship with Kurt = good, history of insane rampages concerning Kitty = not good.

[March Hare]

Ha! I knew it! Everything that's wrong with the Marvel Universe is because Wanda and Vizh broke up. W+V 4ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ha ha! W+V limited series was one of the first Marvel comics I ever read, and I must admit I enjoyed it a lot.

In recompense for that (and for missing Kurt's birthday!), here's some classic Kurmanda, to balance everything out :P

And to think that we'll NEVER know what could have Kurt answered! And what could have Jimaine answered to his answer! Aaaaargh...! Professor Xavier is a jerk!

Plus... COSPLAY!


http://www.deviantart.com/moreliketh...17809#/d4w7t6o[/QUOTE]

Awesome! Quite a bit EVO, but really agile and expressive!

I think they have some Ultimate-verse slash together...? I like Pete, but he's also kind of like Bobby for me--depends on the situation and who's writing him. Deep, compassionate friendship with Kurt = good, history of insane rampages concerning Kitty = not good.

Here's a great average guy I get on well with. Very often in the background, but jumping forward when his principles push him --even though they do it against the majority (e.g., "The Asgardian Wars").

[M.Hammerman]

Here's a great average guy I get on well with. Very often in the background, but jumping forward when his principles push him --even though they do it against the majority (e.g., "The Asgardian Wars").

I was thinking about it this afternoon, and I was feeling pretty dissatisfied with my response to the Kurt/Peter friendship thing. I've written them together a fair amount in fic, so I should be able to come up with some better insights. Anyway, I guess my thing about liking or not liking Pete has to do with the fact that his deep convictions and sense of conscience are too often depicted as small-mindedness. I don't mind him being a bit naive, inasmuch as naivety is a function of a sympathetic kind of innocence, but I don't like it when his naivety gets equated with dumbness.

With him and Kurt... The aspects I like have to do with how Peter's a guy who's defined by raw, physical power who seems to really respect Kurt, a guy who's defined more by brains (or at least cunning) than brawn. I think Peter's respect for that difference says a lot about his character; it also hints at the humility I think Peter ultimately has (despite his sometimes posturing).

Anyway, I liked the depiction of their friendship in this scene from Excal #92, despite it following one of those sexist jealousy rampages I'm not fond of. But maybe it shows Peter's ability to learn from his mistakes...? It's also sort of nice (or interesting?) to see Kurt being really mad at someone (in my selective-reading mind, I imagine only defense of Kitty could provoke him to such acts, lol).

[M.Hammerman]

And as I was looking for that... Some more pretty Kurmanda...


...and I don't know what I'd call whatever's going on with Kurt and Hepzibah here, but it made me smile :P

[Sundowhn]

Oh, I'd forgotten how much I loved that Piotr/Kurt sequence! In the last days of Excalibur, especially, Kurt could really put his foot down, yet retain his voice of wisdom and compassion.

/Giggle at the tangled tails in the Kurt/Hep panels.

[TheMutantJinx]

/Giggle at the tangled tails in the Kurt/Hep panels.

Come to think of it, I can imagine that would be quite cumbersome.

[IndigoLady8]

Some picspam for Kuroro fans.

The Excalibur cover Marg uploaded reminded me of this fanart photomanip




A pic done by the sister of a good friend of mine




From Extreme X-men (don't recall which issue)

[M.Hammerman]

Some picspam for Kuroro fans.

The Excalibur cover Marg uploaded reminded me of this fanart photomanip

Love that! Although there's something wrong about that pose, when you change Amanda to Ororo... She seems too subservient, somehow, being shorter and leaning up... I guess I see her as more of a taker ;) And that pic by your sister's friend is absolutely adorable :)

On a less enthusiastic note... Out of morbid curiosity, I checked out X-Treme X-Men this week and oh my god... I don't think it's a spoiler to say that I hate sad martyr Kurt so much. I mean, yeah, there are different ways to read Nightcrawler as a character, but missing the humour and "choosing not to be a victim"-ness (to the extent that that's possible) of him is pretty major, up there with not getting that the Hulk is about anger, Spider-Man about responsibility, etc. And seriously, why is it that Wolverine can only be bi in a comic where Nightcrawler is a child? Are they that afraid of slash readings?

Sorry, I try not to be negative, but that series really gets to me. Why do an AU version of a character that doesn't engage in any meaningful conversation with the essence of the original? Why not just make up a totally different character? Alternatively, if Pak wanted Amadeus Cho back so badly, he should have just used him instead of trying to turn Kurt into him. Gah. I cranked some Hot Chip and did an extra long workout, and even that didn't make me feel better--nu disco just reminds me of Dazzler now, whom I'm starting to dislike by association. If I could just stop becoming emotionally invested in fictional characters over whom I have no control...

[Sundowhn]

On a less enthusiastic note... Out of morbid curiosity, I checked out X-Treme X-Men this week and oh my god... I don't think it's a spoiler to say that I hate sad martyr Kurt so much. .................

Sorry, I try not to be negative, but that series really gets to me. Why do an AU version of a character that doesn't engage in any meaningful conversation with the essence of the original? Why not just make up a totally different character? Alternatively, if Pak wanted Amadeus Cho back so badly, he should have just used him instead of trying to turn Kurt into him. Gah. I cranked some Hot Chip and did an extra long workout, and even that didn't make me feel better--nu disco just reminds me of Dazzler now, whom I'm starting to dislike by association. If I could just stop becoming emotionally invested in fictional characters over whom I have no control...

In the 32 continuous years that I've been a Nightcrawler fan, I have never, ever utterly loathed a version of the character -- until now. Pak has accomplished what I thought was impossible. He's put some clichéd, whingy, pathetic side-kick into that body and tries to pass it off as a kid version of Kurt. I swear, if that thing ends up in 616....

I'm really not a Dazzler fan, so that's really another big strike for me. I like the idea of a gay Wolverine, but his characterization otherwise is pretty dull.

Yeah, getting emotionally invested in Marvel characters, these days, is a bad idea it seems--- just leads to frustration and disappointment. Unless, of course, you can't get enough of editorial favourites.

[Karl-5]

[QUOTE=Sundowhn;16156911]In the 32 continuous years that I've been a Nightcrawler fan, I have never, ever utterly loathed a version of the character -- until now. Pak has accomplished what I thought was impossible. He's put some clichéd, whingy, pathetic side-kick into that body and tries to pass it off as a kid version of Kurt. I swear, if that thing ends up in 616....

I'm really not a Dazzler fan, so that's really another big strike for me. I like the idea of a gay Wolverine, but his characterization otherwise is pretty dull. [QUOTE]

Sorry, but I still like the kid. He's got a lot of growing up to do, sure, but I don't think he's pathetic, whingy, etc. Considering the situation he's in, I think he's holding his own. After all, an AU version of a character isn't necessarily supposed to be exactly like the original character. I like him as a smart nerdy kid, perhaps because that's what I was.
And I love the idea of a gay version of Wolverine!!!

Dazzler I could do without, but I must admit she told Xavier off in this issue and was the driving force behind going to rescue Kurt.

[Sundowhn]

Sorry, but I still like the kid.

To each his own Nothing against anyone who does like him.

And I love the idea of a gay version of Wolverine!!!

Maybe he'll get some more character focus and development. It could be a unique take on the character and a chance to make him stand out from the original, if done well. For any fans of Sage, Pak posted that Sage from 616 would be joining the team.

[M.Hammerman]

Sorry, but I still like the kid. He's got a lot of growing up to do, sure, but I don't think he's pathetic, whingy, etc. Considering the situation he's in, I think he's holding his own. After all, an AU version of a character isn't necessarily supposed to be exactly like the original character. I like him as a smart nerdy kid, perhaps because that's what I was.

Sure, AU characters shouldn't be the same as their 616 counterparts; that's the whole point of exploring them. But what I'm saying is that KidKurt has no tie in any character-driven way to 616 Kurt--he's just a totally different (and derivative, but that's sort of beside the point) character in a visually similar body. Even beyond my fannishness about 616 Nightcrawler as a character, I think that's just lazy writing; it doesn't capitalize on the uniqueness of the comic form (and particularly the shared Marvel U) for interactivity with character histories, personalities, etc. There's no commentary or insight going on here--it's just exploiting a character image, maybe even trying to piss people off just to get them talking.

I guess my specific gripe with issue #6 was during
spoilers:

the scene where he's getting beaten up by those other kids. KidKurt's got zero personality there besides being a persecuted nerd and victim. That kind of passive acceptance is so incredibly antithetical to the whole concept of Nightcrawler, that I do feel justified in saying it's poor writing and a lack of creative vision.

end of spoilers

I mean, I really enjoy what you do in your own fic, Karl, with exploring the connections between 616 Kurt and Darkholme, their similarities and differences and what that says about nature versus nurture (or however you'd like to phrase it). I think it's far more thoughtful and artful than anything that's going on with KidKurt in X-Treme. I was a nerdy kid, too, but I had more personality than Kurt Waggoner--I'm betting you did as well.

[Sundowhn]

Well, I would venture to guess a Dazzler led title is a hard sell, and when you throw in that it's a title outside the main universe, it makes people even less likely to pick it up. Pak needed names and imagery, so he took Wolverine and Nightcrawler. Wolverine is not so different from the known concept character to make him unbelievable. Kidcrawler is.

Let me see if I can articulate this. Some NC fans dislike Darkholme because he is such an anti-Kurt Wagner -- an opposite, in many ways. But for that to be so clear, there have to be some fundamental similarities, right? The most obvious is the visual one -- the same iconic imagery is used, just with an eye-colour change and a tattoo. Similar fighting/movement style, same speech pattern.
The other, not so obvious thing, is that the characters do have some personality similarities. Don't throw invisible internet objects at me, please.
Kurt Wagner, aside from being known as caring, compassionate and sometimes funny and flirtatious -- and Darkholme is none of these things -- was also stubbornly determined, had a strength of will to put most other characters to shame, was often self-righteous seeming and had enough...ahem...confidence in his opinions to be almost unswayable in them. I mean, realistically, how often do you think his friends would get to the point of rolling their eyes and saying "Fine, Kurt we GET it, enough already!" when he got on a tangent about something like violence or Xavier's dream or faith? He was right, he knew it, and he let others know in such a way to make him the "voice of wisdom". It was not considered a short-coming because most readers agreed with him. He was a noble hero who cared enough to nag his friends into behaving. (The only thing I can really recall him being consistently vacuous about was romantic entanglements.)
Darkholme is just as determined to do his thing, is driven by force of will, is self-righteous in his justification and egocentric about his opinions, and utterly unable to be moved from his chosen course of action, it's just from the perspective of a very dark place, and a man raised by Mystique.

Like Marg, I'm not seeing any commonality in KidKurt. We just have a little blue guy with a tail who can teleport -- if you get down to it, the same similarities with the bamfs. Maybe there is common ground with Evo Kurt from cartoons, maybe not.

Anyhow, just opinions.