Southern school hijinks

[Dr. Pickles]

The story about the FL teacher practicing "wizardry" reminded me of an incident I had in 7th grade.
I brought an issue of Thor to read in study hall and I ended up in the principal's office for having "pagan reading material" and was promptly swatted 3 times with a fiberglass cricket bat.
This was a Southern Baptist private school, so it's not so shocking but still a bit...harsh. Can't be too mad about it as it is part of the reason I abandoned religion. Thanks, Thor!


Interesting take on the energy problem, and pretty much spot on.
I consider myself a Libertarian, and I'm wary of anything having to do with socialism as I think it means everyone being equally miserable.
That said, I think you're right about government having to step in. There's really no other choice if we want to get out of the hole we've dug for ourselves.
Do you think the desire for socialist programs/solutions are a natural by-product of capitalism?

[bartl]

The story about the FL teacher practicing "wizardry" reminded me of an incident I had in 7th grade.

And I didn't know that there were any laws or even contractual obligations against the practice of wizardry. Hey, some of my best friends are wizards!

[Dr. Pickles]

And I didn't know that there were any laws or even contractual obligations against the practice of wizardry. Hey, some of my best friends are wizards!

When you lose your job because your superior thinks palming a toothpick is sorcery, you should probably be glad you're not working there.

[Steven Grant]

I brought an issue of Thor to read in study hall and I ended up in the principal's office for having "pagan reading material" and was promptly swatted 3 times with a fiberglass cricket bat. This was a Southern Baptist private school, so it's not so shocking but still a bit...harsh. Can't be too mad about it as it is part of the reason I abandoned religion. Thanks, Thor!

I wrote one issue of Thor and Jerry Falwell actually condemned it (though not me by name, damn it) on the 700 Club. Kind of funny, really; it was in a segment in the mid-80s on evil comic books corrupting our children - there was a space of about nine minutes where people were trying to start that crusade, but no one was interested - and I just stumbled on it while flipping channels, so I watched for sheer amusement. I forget what other books he rattled off, they were all from Marvel, and then he got to Thor and quoted some line from it that was some obscure Biblical paraphrase, which he then claimed was mocking the Bible (it wasn't) and I had a good laugh but it didn't register what issue it was. He showed the cover, which was nice of him. The segment ended and I switched off.

And ten or so minutes later, I suddenly thought, "wait a minute...!"

Sorry to hear about the corporal punishment. Bastards.

Interesting take on the energy problem, and pretty much spot on. I consider myself a Libertarian, and I'm wary of anything having to do with socialism as I think it means everyone being equally miserable.

I'm generally wary of them too, but there are some projects, like building the pyramids or the Interstate Highway System, that are just too big and complex to be left to individual endeavor. And I only think "socialistic" solutions should be employed short-term and built for obsolescence, for the most part. Meaning in this case: facilitate the changeover, get everyone on the new page and make sure it's all working fairly well, then get the hell out.

That said, I think you're right about government having to step in. There's really no other choice if we want to get out of the hole we've dug for ourselves. Do you think the desire for socialist programs/solutions are a natural by-product of capitalism?

Karl Marx certainly did. I think it depends on the specific problem. In this case, capitalism isn't likely to be a solution because capitalist interests can make considerably more profit - the object of capitalism, after all - milking the current status quo dry at ever-increasing cost to the consumer than they can building a new tech future. Like I said, big energy in particular stands to lose pretty much everything via new energy technologies, if everyone would be use solar, wind or other energies to power their buildings and dwellings. I think it's silly to refer to capitalism as "bad," but in this instance it's kind of in the way...

- Grant

[Dr. Pickles]

The issue in question was a little later. It was a Tom DeFalco/Ron Frenz issue featuring the Juggernaut.Circa 1990...

I'm generally wary of them too, but there are some projects, like building the pyramids or the Interstate Highway System, that are just too big and complex to be left to individual endeavor. And I only think "socialistic" solutions should be employed short-term and built for obsolescence, for the most part. Meaning in this case: facilitate the changeover, get everyone on the new page and make sure it's all working fairly well, then get the hell out.

That's the problem though, right? Governments aren't usually known to get out of the way once they've been given power over something, they just keep the bureaucracy afloat with red tape pretty much making our lives harder. Incremental socialism doesn't seem an easy thing to reverse.

[NatGertler]

it was in a segment in the mid-80s on evil comic books corrupting our children - there was a space of about nine minutes where people were trying to start that crusade, but no one was interested

I wouldn't say no one was interested; there were, of course, forces inside comics who always want us to pull our limbs back into the turtle shell who were screaming that now, obviously, we had to pull our limbs back in the turtle shell.

[Samurai]

The issue in question was a little later. It was a Tom DeFalco/Ron Frenz issue featuring the Juggernaut.Circa 1990...





That's the problem though, right? Governments aren't usually known to get out of the way once they've been given power over something, they just keep the bureaucracy afloat with red tape pretty much making our lives harder. Incremental socialism doesn't seem an easy thing to reverse.

Exactly... government programs, taxes, offices, etc keep going like Energizer bunnies, long after they are needed or wanted. The goal of capitalism may be "profit", but like some living beast, the goal of government offices or programs is "continued existence, and if at all possible, growth and reproduction of sub-agencies/departments". Temporary programs and tax increases for fixing 1 specific thing stick around afterwards. Government is the Growing Man, to use another Thor analogy... :)

[Steven Grant]

The issue in question was a little later. It was a Tom DeFalco/Ron Frenz issue featuring the Juggernaut.Circa 1990...

And they crapped on your for that?! It didn't even feature Mephisto or Satannish or the like?

That's the problem though, right? Governments aren't usually known to get out of the way once they've been given power over something, they just keep the bureaucracy afloat with red tape pretty much making our lives harder. Incremental socialism doesn't seem an easy thing to reverse.

That's true, but theoretically - if people paid attention - in a democracy it should be eminently possible, far more possible than in any other system, to create a finite system with an expiration date, geared for one specific purpose then oblivion. That it doesn't seem to be is more representative of a lazy electorate than anything else.

- Grant

[Steven Grant]

I wouldn't say no one was interested; there were, of course, forces inside comics who always want us to pull our limbs back into the turtle shell who were screaming that now, obviously, we had to pull our limbs back in the turtle shell.

Sure, but I meant among the general public, the ones who are always expected to pick up torches and pitchforks and storm the castle due to fear and misunderstanding. They really weren't buying it as ministers and prosecutors all over the country found out the hard way; in that regard the then-popular image of comics as trivial and all but obsolete was a great blessing, as those who attacked comics just seemed to most people to be underachieving idiots, and when you're running for public office or trying to convince people to donate your life savings to their ministry, that's not really an image you want. Of course, there are always those within the industry who want to throw in the towel at the first whiff of any trouble, sometimes because they've built up "the terror" of the '50s - which sounds like a huge deal in retrospect but in terms of broader culture wasn't all that big a thing and mostly likely would have shaken out harmlessly had publishers taken no action at all - sometimes because they feel any controversy will horrifically impact their bottom line, sometimes because they see profit or advantage in capitulation. But ultimately they didn't get all that far in the '80s either.

- Grant

[Steven Grant]

Exactly... government programs, taxes, offices, etc keep going like Energizer bunnies, long after they are needed or wanted. The goal of capitalism may be "profit", but like some living beast, the goal of government offices or programs is "continued existence, and if at all possible, growth and reproduction of sub-agencies/departments". Temporary programs and tax increases for fixing 1 specific thing stick around afterwards. Government is the Growing Man, to use another Thor analogy... :)

That's true - it's a basic rule of system mechanics that whatever the proposed purpose of the system, once put into action the purpose of the system becomes the perpetuation of the system - but we're intelligent people. We have both enough foresight and enough hindsight to be able to calculate the possibility of continuation long beyond necessity and to put mechanisms in place to nip it in the bud, both by direct action and by eliminating any profitability or advantage that might be gained from keeping a system in place past the conclusion of what it was designed to do. If there turn out to be aspect that are of continued value, fine; discontinue the initial program and institute a new program preserving only what needs preserving.

But we as citizens and our public officials simply aren't trained to view things that way. So that's the first thing that should change.

- Grant

[Dr. Pickles]

And they crapped on your for that?! It didn't even feature Mephisto or Satannish or the like?

The fact that Thor is a Norse god was enough to justify my punishment.

That's true, but theoretically - if people paid attention - in a democracy it should be eminently possible, far more possible than in any other system, to create a finite system with an expiration date, geared for one specific purpose then oblivion. That it doesn't seem to be is more representative of a lazy electorate than anything else.

I agree. It seems that people either don't care because they don't understand the issues or understand but don't believe they can do anything about it.
I believe government screws up everything they get their little fingers in, and I may be mistaken but aren't most federal programs in direct conflict with the 10th Amendment?

Walter Williams was on Hardball the other day and made the point that cities like San Francisco that had been nearly destroyed by natural disasters were rebuilt just fine without the feds, yet after FEMA people became conditioned to wait for Washington to "help" them and we saw what happened to them in New Orleans.

[Steven Grant]

Walter Williams was on Hardball the other day and made the point that cities like San Francisco that had been nearly destroyed by natural disasters were rebuilt just fine without the feds, yet after FEMA people became conditioned to wait for Washington to "help" them and we saw what happened to them in New Orleans.

Eeeeyeah... I don' t know that the two are really comparable, though it makes a nice soundbite. Or was he talking about the San Francisco earthquake of a few years ago?

- Grant

[Dr. Pickles]

Eeeeyeah... I don' t know that the two are really comparable, though it makes a nice soundbite. Or was he talking about the San Francisco earthquake of a few years ago?

- Grant

Not sure, I was channel flipping.

[bartl]

The fact that Thor is a Norse god was enough to justify my punishment.

My favorite take on Thor, however, was Nelson Bridwell's.

[Spike-X]

It was a Tom DeFalco/Ron Frenz issue...

Yeah, I'd say you deserve a smack for that.