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  1. #1
    Son of Baldwin 4PointOh's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Wonder Woman vs. "Black Mary" in FINAL CRISIS #3?

    http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=16005

    Which begged the question, isn't Wonder Woman in that fight? "Wonder Woman already has problems of her own by that point," laughed Morrison. "Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman get targeted by the New Gods pretty quickly. Those are the first big targets that the Gods have to bring down but you'll see Wonder Woman's confrontation with Mary in #3."

    So Diana is going to have her ass handed to her by "Black Mary"?

    Well, narratively speaking, if THE big fight is Black Mary v. Supergirl, it lessens the impact to have Diana defeat Black Mary before Supergirl gets a chance at her. It means that Black Mary isn't really that much of a threat and the fight between her and Kara isn't really a big deal.

    So, I'm of the mind that if by "confrontation" Morrison means "fight," Diana is going to lose--which really falls in line with Morrison's feelings about Diana, if his comments long ago about Wonder Woman in Wizard Magazine and his expressed desire to have Big Barda beat Wonder Woman in battle remain true.

    Of course, I'm just speculating--but there's a whole HEAP of literary evidence that supports the idea that when it comes to Wonder Woman, DC drops the ball more often than not.

    Last edited by 4PointOh; 04-16-2008 at 06:42 AM.
    Son of Baldwin: The literary, sociopolitical, psychosexual, pop cultural blog. Live from Bedford-Stuyvesant.

  2. #2
    America's Sweetheart Pink Bat Maxine's Avatar
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    GYAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!



    FUCK the idea of an 'Evil Mary'.

  3. #3
    14 Time Rita's Champion SUPERECWFAN1's Avatar
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    Its Grant Morrison. He will unite the fanbase and all. I truelly believe he can make FINAL CRISIS really good. Plus redeem some of the shit of Countdown as well.
    "Heads up-- If Havok's position in UA #5 really upset you, it's time to drown yourself hobo piss. Seriously, do it. It's the only solution." - Rick Remender

    Sucks 200 character limit.

  4. #4
    OMG!!! INTERNET! Agent Helix's Avatar
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    I wish Grant Morrison would remember that he's above this bullshit and do something brilliant again.

  5. #5
    America's Sweetheart Pink Bat Maxine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPERECWFAN1 View Post
    Its Grant Morrison. He will unite the fanbase and all. I truelly believe he can make FINAL CRISIS really good. Plus redeem some of the shit of Countdown as well.
    He could make it good.
    It's not a given that he will.
    No writer's infallible, and Morrison has his misses.

    At any rate, I feel bad for Dini. He was obviously told to set up Final Crisis rather than just tell a good story.

  6. #6
    Elder Member Charles RB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4PointOh View Post
    So Diana is going to have her ass handed to her by "Black Mary"?
    Diana is the chosen of the Greek pantheon, sent to the world to make it better - Mary Marvel is currently the chosen of that pantheon gone wrong. A punch-up between the two makes sense.
    "We must fight on!"
    "We'll die. We fight and we die, that's how it goes."
    "Then we die gloriously!"
    "There's an important word there, and it's not gloriously."
    - Only You Can Save Mankind

  7. #7
    Belfry Lurker Chiroptera's Avatar
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    Well, a fight doesn't always have to have a victor, my bet with Morrisson is that this fight will reflect that. I'll be surprised if he shows either character having a clear victory over the other.
    And I doubt the top dogs would let "Black Mary" truly whip down Diana. Didio said one of their tasks with the new Wonder Woman series was to bring her up, to show WHY She's one of the big three. They can't accomplish that by her getting her ass kicked by a teenage heroine gone wrong so I doubt that's what will happen.
    Last edited by Chiroptera; 04-16-2008 at 08:00 AM.
    "A wise old owl lived in an Oak,
    The more he saw the less he spoke,
    The less he spoke the more he heard,
    Why can't we all be like that wise old bird?
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  8. #8
    Son of Baldwin 4PointOh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chiroptera View Post
    You know.. A fight doesn't always have to have a victor. And my bet with Morrisson is that this fight will reflect that. I'll be surprised if he shows either character having a clear victory over the other.
    And I doubt the top dogs would let "Black MAry" truly whip down Diana. Didio said one of their tasks with the new Wonder Woman series was to bring her up, to show WHY She's one of the big three. They can't accomplish that by her getting her ass kicked by a teenage heroine gone wrong so I doubt that's what will happen.
    Oh, ye of little faith. Watch as DC subverts your expectations.

    Son of Baldwin: The literary, sociopolitical, psychosexual, pop cultural blog. Live from Bedford-Stuyvesant.

  9. #9
    Elder Member Charles RB's Avatar
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    "Ye of faith" in this context...
    "We must fight on!"
    "We'll die. We fight and we die, that's how it goes."
    "Then we die gloriously!"
    "There's an important word there, and it's not gloriously."
    - Only You Can Save Mankind

  10. #10
    Senior Member Wonder Watcher's Avatar
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    If the read is correct then for the story Diana has to lose, I think it's a simple as that.

    And to be fair they've amped Mary up to the level where on any given Sunday that could reasonably happen.
    Ted Kord said it best

  11. #11
    America's Sweetheart Pink Bat Maxine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles RB View Post
    Diana is the chosen of the Greek pantheon, sent to the world to make it better - Mary Marvel is currently the chosen of that pantheon gone wrong. A punch-up between the two makes sense.
    Her powers currently come from Black Adam's pantheon..... Egyptian rather than Greek.

    Those sourpuss Egyptians.
    Last edited by Pink Bat Maxine; 04-16-2008 at 08:54 AM.

  12. #12
    Belfry Lurker Chiroptera's Avatar
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    After reading the interview more thoroughly I have a bigger question to ask of you all!

    .... Who says it's a physical confrontation?
    "Wonder Woman has her confrontation in #3" ... Confrontation can mean a lot of things. For all we know she may have a battle of words with Mary that pushes Mary over the edge (again :rolleyes:) and sends her rocketting off into another psychotic tantrum.

    As a random out of context side note. Mary was my favorite member of the Marvel family till all this Black Mary crap happened, now I find myself often wishing to see someone beat her so senseless that the rest of her scenes in all of comicdom involve her in a hospital bed comatose for all eternity.

    Gotta say Morrison's really not selling me on this whole evil gods thing. Hell he even pointed out himself by mention of Galactus that this scenario has been done! It's been done to death and I for one have gotten really sick of it. The only way I'll be looking into this one is if the initial reviews for it are positively stellar. I'm gonna need quotes like "A must read for DC fans in 2008" from reviewers before I'll even be able to consider reading.
    Sick of this "ooh I'm an evil evil dity of destruction, mwuhaha, fear me!" bull shit man.
    "A wise old owl lived in an Oak,
    The more he saw the less he spoke,
    The less he spoke the more he heard,
    Why can't we all be like that wise old bird?
    "

  13. #13
    Senior Member Wonder Watcher's Avatar
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    I'm just hoping the cover isn't reflective of Diana's state following the confrontation, whatever its form.
    Ted Kord said it best

  14. #14
    Member Zeb Oswalt's Avatar
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    Hmm, Ok I'm about to anoy people, but what else is new. I'm sorry up front.Still, if mary uses WW's laso around her(can't belive I'm going with this, but it would work. )She could tie WW to something. Not sure how it is now, but in the old days WW can't even break her lasso. Or realy bad stuff happens to her. So Ampted up Marry catches her lasso when WW tries to lasso her feet while she's fling around attacking her from a distance. Then ewith her super human speed she ties her up. Taking WW out of the fight. Or as a villan she endangers some people WW has to save them Mary steels her laso and tioes her up. Marry was in the old days an equal to Captain Marvel. Who can go toe to toe with Super Man. So adding that in And them amping her up. IOf she's sneaky enough she can take WW out of tyhe fight. I never said win, since WW has become a lot more ruthless. And skilled. And with determation Bats dioesn't have. Still, using her favorette weapon against her Marry can keep her bussy. Say does Super Girl have the magic weaknes?


    They could do the bit in Kingsdom come here with that fight Black Mary vs Super Girl. She runs around yelling Shazam. Mary could just start a sninking ship and then WW would have to save the pasagers. Or actavate a Valcano. Then as dark as WW is geting she'lll have to break off the fight to save people. Then Mary runs into Super girl. I like WW. Still, Marry is necer played to her full strengths. She's saposed to be The Big Red cheese's equal. Captain Marvel is a threat to Supes power level. Ansd since WW is a threat to Supes on power level this should be an even fight at lest. Espeachely with Mary ampted up. Supes and Black Adam had a desant fight. So yeah Mary should put up a desant fight even against WW. Is WW the best in DC world? Pretty much. But, there are those who can cause her a threat. An evil Mary Marvel defantly fits in that bill. And if she's sneaky enough Mary can trick WW out of the fight. Not with tactics of course. She's not going to out battle plan an Amazon, however using WW's lasso to her advantage.


    Or the old villan trick of indangring people. Well, it's an old trick, but it works. It comes down to how far dawn is WW willing to fall? When does an anti hero become a villan. (At this point WW is kind of in Anti hero mode. She killed Max for crying out load. It was needed , still...Though Infanit Crissis had her slowly redeming her self, so I don't know.) Still, in the enbd I see her worring about people more than fighting Black Marry. Or Marry can threaten poeple WW runs to save them she ties her up with her own Lasso and stops what she set in motion. I'm notr saying that on any given day WW couldn't own Marry Marvel in a fight. Just that Mary has some chances of winning.

  15. #15
    Elder Member Charles RB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pink Bat Maxine View Post
    Her powers currently come from Black Adam's pantheon..... Egyptian rather than greek.
    She got repowered by the Greek gods in Countdown, didn't she?
    "We must fight on!"
    "We'll die. We fight and we die, that's how it goes."
    "Then we die gloriously!"
    "There's an important word there, and it's not gloriously."
    - Only You Can Save Mankind

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