How Hard Should Reading Comics Be?

[opieandy]

Couldn't think of a better way to phrase the question, but what I'm getting at is the fact that sometimes, reading comics is too hard! I enjoy this hobby as a diversion, and my favorite part of comics is watching a storyline evolve over time. I really enjoy knowing the history of Spidey (whacked though it is) and seeing what's going to happen next. One-shot fights with super-baddies, with no overall plot development, don't do much for me.

Anyhoo, comics today are more difficult to understand than I would like, and I'm just curious if anyone else feels the same way. I have to stretch my brain all day at work. I don't want to pick up my comics and have to stretch and struggle to figure out what's going on. Make it a bit more obvious.

I read 7 Marvel titles, including New Avengers, and one of my favorite NA issues recently was the one where Luke Cage and his wife had an issue-long argument where she left and went to Avengers HQ. Why? It was very easy to follow, and it advanced a personal storyline that I found interesting. On the other hand, many comics today use very little dialogue, sometimes with pages and pages of only art from which I'm supposed to glean what's happening. I'm a pretty bright guy, but sometimes I'm just not able to follow what's going on only from pictures that are seemingly vague.

Certainly, 60s and 70s comics had too much dialogue, with text boxes taking up much of the page at times. But can't we strike a happy medium and have a bit more dialogue to help the reader along in today's comics?

What say you?

[IronKing]

I remember reading a few X-Men books when I was like 7 or 8, and as cool as the characters looked...I just couldn't understand what was going on.

Well, now that I think about it, I don't think that's changed much. lol

And I agree about that NA issue. A lot of people didn't like it, but I loved it. It was nice to see the "regular" side to some of our favorite characters. I guess some people don't read comics to read realistic stuff like that. It probably goes over their heads. Or they just don't care.

A good writer knows how to tell a deep story without getting too complicated. That's one of the hardest things to do for any writer, artist, musician, etc. To tell a genuinely entertaining story without dumbing down the content too much.

[Venom]

I think Amazing Spider-Girl has the perfect balance of the right amount of dialogue while also not taking up all of the room for the art. I love how it takes me a while to read an issue of that series. Also Tom DeFalco is an old school writer so I'd be pretty shocked if he starts cutting down his dialogue.

Some writers feel the need especially Bendis that at times the art speaks louder than dialogue. And I agree on that. It's better than a narration box saying what the person is thinking or feeling when you already know. This is modern story telling and how a lot of writers script their comics these days.

[Eumenides]

Some writers feel the need especially Bendis that at times the art speaks louder than dialogue. And I agree on that. It's better than a narration box saying what the person is thinking or feeling when you already know. This is modern story telling and how a lot of writers script their comics these days.

You know, a caption doesn't have to duplicate the information that's on the panel. That's one of the abilities of comics, the juxtaposition of parallel narratives. The problem is, it's really easier to write a page without dialogues, especially if you write 5 comics a month like Bandies does.

Also, the pencils only work better than the words if the penciller actually has great storytelling skills, which most of the time they don't: most pencillers can't convey facial emotions; pencillers don't bother to think what's the best angle to draw a panel from (writers should convey this in their scripts, but don't thanks to the predominant and lax, leave-it-to-the-penciller policy), so we get pointless ass shots of female characters, which I'm sure serve a higher purpose, but certainly don't aid the story. And thanks to the widescreen disease, writers write dialogue for a panel that takes up 1/3 of the page, when the same dialogue could easily be fitted in 1/9 of the page, making each page emptier.

It's modern storytelling, but I hardly see that as synonymous with better storytelling.

[jim1175]

Certainly, 60s and 70s comics had too much dialogue, with text boxes taking up much of the page at times. But can't we strike a happy medium and have a bit more dialogue to help the reader along in today's comics?

What say you?

I actually liked those books with the long dialogue boxes and the footnotes, thought bubbles, etc. I felt like I was getting my moneys' worth out of those; now adays I can read a $3 book in 5min.

[TheAmazingSpidey]

I actually liked those books with the long dialogue boxes and the footnotes, thought bubbles, etc. I felt like I was getting my moneys' worth out of those; now adays I can read a $3 book in 5min.

I like those, too. I liked the narration, and all that. I can polish off current comics in a few minutes, usually. (I say usually because it depends on the comic.) With older issues, it takes a lot longer--and I like that. I love these characters, so, obviously I won't mind sitting there for a long time. And I won't mind getting my money's worth, either.

[gorthon616]

Couldn't think of a better way to phrase the question, but what I'm getting at is the fact that sometimes, reading comics is too hard! I enjoy this hobby as a diversion, and my favorite part of comics is watching a storyline evolve over time. I really enjoy knowing the history of Spidey (whacked though it is) and seeing what's going to happen next. One-shot fights with super-baddies, with no overall plot development, don't do much for me.

Anyhoo, comics today are more difficult to understand than I would like, and I'm just curious if anyone else feels the same way. I have to stretch my brain all day at work. I don't want to pick up my comics and have to stretch and struggle to figure out what's going on. Make it a bit more obvious.

I read 7 Marvel titles, including New Avengers, and one of my favorite NA issues recently was the one where Luke Cage and his wife had an issue-long argument where she left and went to Avengers HQ. Why? It was very easy to follow, and it advanced a personal storyline that I found interesting. On the other hand, many comics today use very little dialogue, sometimes with pages and pages of only art from which I'm supposed to glean what's happening. I'm a pretty bright guy, but sometimes I'm just not able to follow what's going on only from pictures that are seemingly vague.

Certainly, 60s and 70s comics had too much dialogue, with text boxes taking up much of the page at times. But can't we strike a happy medium and have a bit more dialogue to help the reader along in today's comics?

What say you?

I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at. Maybe if you give an example of what is a confusing comic? Rarely outside of something like Morrison on a heavy drug trip (like his Invisibles), do I ever find a comic book confusing. They are all pretty straight forward in my opinion.

Are you talking about page layouts? Or stories that aren't easily accessible in the middle of the story? I don't know what 60's and 70's comics were like so that reference doesn't help. And that NA issue (which I enjoyed) isn't really a paradigm that other comics can follow ad nauseum.

[IronKing]

Moon Knight is a good example of something that's a bit hard to follow. It just sort of jumps from panel to panel.

[gorthon616]

Moon Knight is a good example of something that's a bit hard to follow. It just sort of jumps from panel to panel.

The opening arc or more recent stuff? I read the opening arc is why I'm asking.

I don't really recall any issues I had with it. Though imo a lot of artists need to take lessons on storying telling rather than anatomy 101. But I've sort of gotten used to it as within my "enjoyment" of a comic will be me critiquing how well they tell the story through page layouts or otherwise.

But I would definitely agree that traditional structure is often thrown out the window for little redemptive reasons. Artists considering the aesthetic value of the page rather than the storying telling value of it.

So I guess I'd say it shouldn't be all that hard. I might have a higher tolerance (for a variety of reasons), but I don't think a comic should try to be esoteric.

[Joe Acro]

Certainly, 60s and 70s comics had too much dialogue, with text boxes taking up much of the page at times. But can't we strike a happy medium and have a bit more dialogue to help the reader along in today's comics?

What say you?

There are some bits that help with explanations. The review page in the front typically does a good job of bringing a new reader up to speed. Some of them even include names and depictions of the main players (such as Avengers: the Initiative).

This allows the writer to not resort to name-dropping every issue and frees up dialogue to be replaced by explanation. Or, in some cases, frees up area for artists to just draw. Like a two-page battle sequence.

[Brian M.]

Considering the intelligence level of some readers I would think it shouldn't be any harder than The Little Engine That Could.

[Jim Thompson]

Couldn't think of a better way to phrase the question, but what I'm getting at is the fact that sometimes, reading comics is too hard! I enjoy this hobby as a diversion, and my favorite part of comics is watching a storyline evolve over time. I really enjoy knowing the history of Spidey (whacked though it is) and seeing what's going to happen next. One-shot fights with super-baddies, with no overall plot development, don't do much for me.

Anyhoo, comics today are more difficult to understand than I would like, and I'm just curious if anyone else feels the same way. I have to stretch my brain all day at work. I don't want to pick up my comics and have to stretch and struggle to figure out what's going on. Make it a bit more obvious.

I read 7 Marvel titles, including New Avengers, and one of my favorite NA issues recently was the one where Luke Cage and his wife had an issue-long argument where she left and went to Avengers HQ. Why? It was very easy to follow, and it advanced a personal storyline that I found interesting. On the other hand, many comics today use very little dialogue, sometimes with pages and pages of only art from which I'm supposed to glean what's happening. I'm a pretty bright guy, but sometimes I'm just not able to follow what's going on only from pictures that are seemingly vague.

Certainly, 60s and 70s comics had too much dialogue, with text boxes taking up much of the page at times. But can't we strike a happy medium and have a bit more dialogue to help the reader along in today's comics?

What say you?

If you haven't already, Scott McCloud really does a good job of covering down on all this material in his books Understanding Comics, Re-imagining Comics and Making Comics.

[Mister Mets]

Are you talking about poor storytelling, or narrative complexity?

Storytelling has gotten more complex and intricate in television and movies in the last few years, so it stands to reason that a similar thing would happen to comics.

If the average reader carefully looks over a comic, and doesn't understand what exactly is going on, that's just poor storytelling, which was previously covered up by text explaining just what's going on.

[BatWing]

Well, for a beginner it could be hard to figure out who is which character. Sure, everybody knows Peter Parker is Spider-Man (or am I spoilering? ) but if suddenly a character shows up who you've never heard of, then sometimes it can be a bit difficult.
Or dropping into the middle of an arc. It's not too difficult to understand it (most of it is recapped in the beginning, anyway) but you will miss certain things. It can be good, though. You immediately get to learn the characters, whilst figuring out the story.

[StoneGold]

If there was a perfect formula that worked for every writer for every character during every time period, books would never get canceled.