Space Opera

[mlcm]

Who likes space opera? Who wants to talk about it? Who wants to discuss its merits and its weaknesses?

For those who don't know, space opera is a style within the genre of sci-fi. It's characterized by swashbuckling muscular men, sexy half-clothed damsels in distress, rayguns, evil aliens, rather large spaceships that get into laser battles with other spaceships, and a rather dim view on epic themes other than blowin' shit up.

Now I like space opera because it's trashy fun. It's not pretentious, it doesn't require a lot of work, and it has garish covers, generally. Garish and titillating.

BUT I don't want disgusting offensive, insult-your-intelligence space opera where the heroine is not-ironically called Lacey SexYouUp, or something like that.

So my favourite space opera story has to be the Hyperion cycle from Dan Simmons, that comprises Hyperion, The Fall Of Hyperion, Endymion, and the Rise of Endymion. Not only is it classic timestream-f*$&ing, spaceship-killing space opera, but it's also replete with fun snazzy literary references to Keats and other things. It also features the Shrike, this four-armed possible-robot made of razor wire that impales people on a tree of thorns with no logical origin (until later in the cycle - possibly - explanations are unreliable in this story). This Shrike operates outside of normal linear time and is unbeatable, no hyperbole.

I read the second volume, The Fall of Hyperion in two days because it was so awesome that it was off the awesome scale. It was four hundred pages of pure epic spacebattle that ranges from the present setting of the book (the future) to a far far far future to the past, and everywhere in the universe (which is also in the past and future! whoa - mindbending)

My next fav is the Ilium/Olympos duo from the same author. Essentially we follow this time-transplanted classics scholar as he watches far-future Greek Gods from Mars play out with entire Trojan War on an alternate universe Earth. That synopsis doesn't even scratch the surface!

I'm going to be reading John C Wright's Golden Age trilogy next. Anybody read that? Anybody going to read it that wants to discuss?

What's your fav space opera? Do you like space opera? Do you think space opera is crap? Does the definition of space opera (as presented above) need changing? Does this mean space opera can't be intelligent or deal with epic themes in a complex way because of the outlined definition?

Let's discuss.

[Ilash]

I'm so confused. How on earth does Hyperion fit into your definition of Space Opera? It's pretty much the exact opposite of what you described. Hyperion (I have only read the first one but I'm getting to the Fall of Hyperion soon) is a really fantastic, beautifully realized work of fiction that's not just a great sci-fi novel but is a great novel period. It's a hell of a lot more than just "trashy fun" and I'm kind of surprised that you would view it as such.

[Rabid Trekkie]

Haven't read very much Space Opera (and I think the genre can actually go beyond the limits you set for it) unless Star Trek and Star Wars novels count. I have read and love the first two Deathstalker novels and am currently reading A Princess of Mars by Edgar R. Burroughs, though I don't know if that counts as space opera.

I have this collection of short stories called The New Space Opera, only read one story from it so far (too much to read) but I'm getting to it eventually and thought others might be interested.

[Roquefort Raider]

Haven't read very much Space Opera (and I think the genre can actually go beyond the limits you set for it) unless Star Trek and Star Wars novels count.

Oh, Star Wars is definitely space opera material. It could also be called a space fantasy, I guess, but it's clearly a continuation of the golden age space adventures stories where spaceships and ray-guns were just props designed to help heroic characters do dangerous things and overcome challenges thanks to their courage, acumen and and physical prowess. No science necessary, and what scientific trappings were added to the plot could usually be replaced by magic and still make a decent story (although one that would be deemed simple "fantasy").

I find that the typical space opera has a lot in common with westerns. There are usually good guys, bad guys, conflict, and everyone is packing a weapon. There is also usually a frontier atmosphere, and the hero is mostly an individualist, a self-reliant wanderer, who's seen a lot and is good in a fight. And he gets the girl at the end.

[mlcm]

Oh, Star Wars is definitely space opera material. It could also be called a space fantasy, I guess, but it's clearly a continuation of the golden age space adventures stories where spaceships and ray-guns were just props designed to help heroic characters do dangerous things and overcome challenges thanks to their courage, acumen and and physical prowess. No science necessary, and what scientific trappings were added to the plot could usually be replaced by magic and still make a decent story (although one that would be deemed simple "fantasy").

I find that the typical space opera has a lot in common with westerns. There are usually good guys, bad guys, conflict, and everyone is packing a weapon. There is also usually a frontier atmosphere, and the hero is mostly an individualist, a self-reliant wanderer, who's seen a lot and is good in a fight. And he gets the girl at the end.

I completely forgot to mention the lack of scientific knowledge required for space opera. Thank you, Roquefort Raider, you eloquently put it succinctly.

I think the definition of "space opera" is rather nebulous. While I admit my favourite is Dan Simmon's Hyperion Cantos, it does stretch my aforementioned definition. It's still a swashbuckling adventure story with spaceships and a great huge "evil" robot.

A very big space opera series is the one by Peter F. Hamilton called The Night's Dawn Trilogy, which in paperback is six novels. It's about a wave of dead souls coming back from the afterlife and possessing people. It's gigantic and universe-spanning. It also features some of the most poorly written sex scenes EVER. The Night's Dawn Trilogy fits into the space opera genre almost perfectly.

I agree that the space opera and the western have some overlay. That's especially true with Star Wars! Their manner of dress and sidearms, bounty hunters, Tattoine (or however it's spelled), etc.

[sheets]

I find that the typical space opera has a lot in common with westerns.

The term space opera was coined to evoke similarities to westerns, which used to be called horse operas. Space opera was a derogatory term to describe "westerns in outer space".

Personally I'd rather read a good space opera than a hard sci-fi novel. I like the old stuff - Edmond Hamilton, Doc Smith. I tried to read Deathstalker once but it mostly just made me want to watch Star Wars again...

[Trey]

The Golden Age is brilliant, brilliant stuff. It is very difficult to read as it has made-up words that can be hard to figure out what they mean from the context. If you can get past the first 100 pages, it flows much easier. Its the best sci-fi story ever in my opinion.

Something lighter but a true epic is The Inquisition War, a trilogy by Ian Watson. Its a Warhammer 40K book, but you don't need to know the game to enjoy the over-the-top mayhem. Its the best sci-fi work out of any of the tons of licensed properties out there.

These are my 2 favorite sci-fi epics of all time.

[Karl J Barnes]

Fredrick Pohl's The HeeChee War or C J Cherryh's Downbelow Station or her Foriegner or her "Alliance-Union" universe like, Cuckoo's Egg,40,000 in Gehenna are engaging Space Operas.

[BoosterBronze]

Simon Green's "Deathstalker" series is incredibly fun, fast paced, and violent space opera that's both classic feeling, and very modern.

[vazel]

I love space operas. Of course the Dune Chronicles is the best but Dan Simmons is the master of it in the modern era with his Hyperion Cantos and Ilium duology books. Here's hoping he writes another space opera.

[howyadoin]

Lacey SexYouUp

Man, if I ever have kids...



But seriously, I haven't read a lot of space opera, but it's a pretty cool genre. I'm a big fan of Keith Laumer, though, so I'll have to mention his work.

[roguespirit]

I've actually been looking to start reading more sci-fi recently and this thread, Lacy Sexyouup, notwithstanding has got me all excited again.

In terms of space opera the last thing I read was Doc Smiths Lensman series absolutely ridiculous but epic in every sense of the word and so much fun

[Perry Holley]

I completely forgot to mention the lack of scientific knowledge required for space opera.

While SO may not require scientific knowledge, neither does it preclude it.

Poul Anderson and H. Beam Piper, just to give two examples, wrote seriously kick-ass SO, and their stuff was well-grounded in science (as it was best understood at the time), especially so with Anderson.

As for modern SO, I can highly recommend John Scalzi's trilogy of Old Man's War, The Ghost Brigades, and The Last Colony. Great stuff.

[mlcm]

As for modern SO, I can highly recommend John Scalzi's trilogy of Old Man's war, The Ghost Brigades, and The Last Colon. Great stuff.

I'd love to read the Last Colon. Sounds dark.

[Perry Holley]

Arrrgh! (typos corrected)