Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 46

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Member Brother Zag's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Burlington, Vermont
    Posts
    838

    Default DLC Vs. Old School Liberals

    I liked your quick bit on the Kennedy's endorsement of Obama. As an early Obama supporter, it has been driving me nuts listening to Former Prez Clinton subtly slander Obama. The whole Reagan/Ideas thing was completely mischaracterized by the Clinton Camp (did you hear the radio ads taking the quote out of context?). The fact that Bill Clinton was a leader of the DLC and their attempts to Republicanize the Democratic Party has been conveniently overlooked by the short term memory possessed media.

    The DLC's tactics served the Dems well at the time Clinton ran, post-Reagan and Bush #1. In effect, they are still running this sort of campaign, this time for Hillary: "What are people voting for? Okay, let's be like THAT!"

    The Kennedy endorsement is a major sign that the DLC's grip on the Democratic Party has faltered. The first sign was Howard Dean's ascension to DNC Chair. Certainly Teddy's endorsement serves notice that the DLC is in eclipse.

    Caroline's endorsement serves a different purpose and audience, I believe. Her comment that, in Obama, she feels the kind of hope that people tell her that her father gave them, is huge with young 40 somethings and younger voters who don't actually remember the JFK, or even the RFK years. Like me. We've heard the legends our whole lives (well, maybe I did even more so because I grew up in Massachusetts). In Caroline, here's someone with the cred to say what she said and make it mean something... and somehow make Obama's candidacy more historically resonant.
    Free downloads and more about me and my books at
    Glow-in-the-Dark Radio

  2. #2
    Master of All I Survey
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    567

    Default

    Bill and Hillary are social liberals, but economic moderate-Republicans (Hillary moreso than Bill). Bill wasn't exactly a champion of the working person, and Hillary was a Wal-Mart lawyer.

    I always laughed when I heard the wailing that Clinton was a far-left liberal...until I saw people believing it.

    America knows nothing about liberal politics, except what the GOP misleadingly tells them. The Dems sure aren't defending themselves or the label. They run from it. Buncha cowards.

    My problem with this race is that I don't know WHAT Obama stands for. I don't want a politician to bring me hope. Hope I already have. I want a politician to bring me RESULTS. And I don't know that Obama can or will do that.

  3. #3
    Master of All I Survey
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    567

    Default

    Let me add that I don't mean Bill didn't do anything for the working class or middle class. He did some good things, such as tax breaks for people going back to school and raising the minimum wage. But he didn't go far enough.

    I like the guy (foibles notwithstanding), and will greatly enjoy him as First Husband. But it won't be much of a blow against the corporatocracy.

  4. #4
    Member Brother Zag's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Burlington, Vermont
    Posts
    838

    Default

    I read Obama's book The Audacity of Hope before he was a candidate. Made me wish someone like that would run for president... so I'm not just basing my support on some vague promise of hope, but on some firm propositions well reasoned and explained that I was able to read over a year ago.
    Free downloads and more about me and my books at
    Glow-in-the-Dark Radio

  5. #5

    Default

    Me, I like the fact that long before he was a presidential candidate, the dude wrote a book. Sure, lots of candidates had books with their names on it put out when they were campaigning. Barack put out a book, and one that wasn't utterly calculated to sell himself as a candidate. That says something to me.

    But that may just be the bias of one writer for another.

  6. #6
    Be Right Back... Spike-X's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Just above Tasmania
    Posts
    34,893

    Default

    It would be good to have a President who's written a book before running for office.

    As opposed to your current President, who I doubt had even read one* before running for office.





    * one that either didn't have pictures, or start with 'The' and end with 'Bible', at least.
    Christ, do I have to do all the thinking for the entire fucking Internet? - Michael P

  7. #7
    Elder Member DeadXMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    The Big O
    Posts
    23,183

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Destiny View Post
    Let me add that I don't mean Bill didn't do anything for the working class or middle class. He did some good things, such as tax breaks for people going back to school and raising the minimum wage. But he didn't go far enough.

    I like the guy (foibles notwithstanding), and will greatly enjoy him as First Husband. But it won't be much of a blow against the corporatocracy.


    he also brought in the Free Trade agreement that stated sending our manifacturing jobs out of the US. now data entry, and costumer sevice are leaving as well.
    Cyclops ad portas

  8. #8
    Be Right Back... Spike-X's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Just above Tasmania
    Posts
    34,893

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DeadXMan View Post
    now data entry, and costumer sevice are leaving as well.
    You mean...Captain America won't even be able to get a costume that's made in the USA any more?

    Once he comes back from the dead, that is.
    Christ, do I have to do all the thinking for the entire fucking Internet? - Michael P

  9. #9
    Ben L FunkyGreenJerusalem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    12,020

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Spike-X View Post
    You mean...Captain America won't even be able to get a costume that's made in the USA any more?

    Once he comes back from the dead, that is.
    That would explain the new uniform having the Puerto Rican flag on it.
    ADVERTISE HERE!

  10. #10
    Heretic bartl's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    New Milford, NJ
    Posts
    888

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DeadXMan View Post
    he also brought in the Free Trade agreement that stated sending our manifacturing jobs out of the US. now data entry, and costumer sevice are leaving as well.
    To countries without the same privacy laws that the U.S. has, so our personal information is being sold all over the place, now. Some states have come around, and do not allow outsourcing of personal information to foreign countries.
    Bart Lidofsky

  11. #11
    Senior Member DavidAllred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    3,388

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Destiny View Post
    My problem with this race is that I don't know WHAT Obama stands for. I don't want a politician to bring me hope. Hope I already have. I want a politician to bring me RESULTS. And I don't know that Obama can or will do that.
    I spent some time on Obama's webiste this morning... I lean right in my politics, but tend to like what I hear, so I went to see where the rubber really met the road as far as what Obama would do as President. The website is laid out nicely and easy to follow. Under the "issues" column he give a small window into what he wants to do for America, many of the pages also contain video feeds so you can hear him say it in his own words.

    What impressed me the most were his commitments to people with disabilities, his lecture of faith and public life, and his commitment to civil rights.

    As far as results go, I wouldn't expect much from Washington in your lifetime. It's just not in them to do much other than perpetuate their own careers. Better to start with your local government and push them toward a high level of accountability.

    Mt 2 cents,

    --S

  12. #12
    Master of All I Survey
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    567

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stamen View Post
    I spent some time on Obama's webiste this morning... I lean right in my politics, but tend to like what I hear, so I went to see where the rubber really met the road as far as what Obama would do as President. The website is laid out nicely and easy to follow. Under the "issues" column he give a small window into what he wants to do for America, many of the pages also contain video feeds so you can hear him say it in his own words.

    Yeah, Obama sure talks a good game. But I go by votes, not speeches. And for some reason he chose, way too often for my taste, to merely say "present" when he had a chance to vote yay or nay on policy issues.

    Hillary's talking a good game too. But when she had a chance to vote against giving telecoms immunity (which to me sounds like an unconstitutional ex post facto law), she opted to campaign instead. That decision spoke volumes for me.

  13. #13
    Member Brother Zag's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Burlington, Vermont
    Posts
    838

    Default More Republican Behavior for the Clintons

    The Clinton Machine keeps utilizing Republican tactics. The latest iteration? The use of the "Manufactured Outrage" campaign, employed successfully time and again by Republicans and Republican administrations to generate sympathy and publicity since Reagan took office. Hillary Clinton is generating fake indignancy over MSNBC Reporter David Schuster's asking if the Clinton campaign "pimped out" daughter Chelsea. Oh, the horror!

    It was a stupid thing to say on the air. Schuster is usually sharper than that. I think he's a little stiff, a little square and was trying to sound "hip" and came off anything but hip to be square... But for the Manufactured Outrage Campaign to work, there has to be some truth to the offense, and on some level what Schuster said could be construed to be offensive. And ripe to be misconstrued to be abhorrent and horrific.

    Hillary is demanding Schuster's virtual head, saying a temporary suspension and apology are not enough. Shame on her. She wants to ruin his career over this, and doesn't mind saying so. The Millionaire wants the under paid cable reporter on unemployment, or worse; a demand without mercy - scorched Earth tactics. Pretty brutal.

    This false bravado covering petty retribution used to be the hallmark of Republicans, who used and overused it to the point where the American people stopped believing it. Hillary and the Clinton campaign are gambling on the fact that Hillary can preface her remarks with a statement no major Republican candidate has been able to use: "As a mother...". She's playing the "gender" card in a major way, and coloring the false indignancy she's shoveling with the patina of protective motherhood. It could prove a masterstroke of manipulation, or backfire against her. We'll see.

    But, yet again, the Clinton campaign's tactics are Republican tactics.
    Free downloads and more about me and my books at
    Glow-in-the-Dark Radio

  14. #14
    Essayist and Gadfly Bradley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    The Frozen North
    Posts
    348

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Zag View Post
    But for the Manufactured Outrage Campaign to work, there has to be some truth to the offense, and on some level what Schuster said could be construed to be offensive. And ripe to be misconstrued to be abhorrent and horrific.
    I don't quite understand what this means, but I think you're begging the question by assuming that I believe that the Clinton outrage over Schuster's comments is "manufactured" (that is to say, insincere). You don't think it's possible that Clinton's sincerely pissed that someone would use this type of misogynist language to describe her daughter? And her relationship with her daughter?

    Keep in mind, I'm an Obama supporter-- I've got very little love for Hillary Clinton at the moment. But the assumption that she's insincere in this instance is a little much.
    Last edited by Bradley; 02-10-2008 at 09:15 AM.

  15. #15
    Heretic bartl's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    New Milford, NJ
    Posts
    888

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley View Post
    I don't quite understand what this means, but I think you're begging the question by assuming that I believe that the Clinton outrage over Schuster's comments is "manufactured" (that is to say, insincere). You don't think it's possible that Clinton's sincerely pissed that someone would use this type of misogynist language to describe her daughter? And her relationship with her daughter?
    I, for one, don't think that either President or Senator Clinton felt any outrage whatsoever.
    Bart Lidofsky

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •