Killing the Champ

[PatrickG]

So I JUST discovered that the more proper form of the phrase "chomping at the bit" is "champing at the bit".

However, further research shows that the words share almost all meanings and that the verb "to champ" in completely out of use except for in the phrase "champing at the bit".

Furthermore, they're both words from the 16th century and people have been trying to phase out "champing" since then. Similar to "stamping" being replaced with "stomping" in many cases or any number of similar changes.

It irks me a bit that people suggest that "champing at the bit" is proper since the minority of people use it and the word is all but dead elsewhere in American English.

Language is defined by usage. No grammer is write or wrong except by the word of the people who speak a language.

Gonna sound stupid here but I will FIGHT for omitting the Oxford comma, eliminating archaic words which have been replaced, the RIGHT of all speakers to create new coinages and for the absolute and undeniable grammatical correctitude of the split infinitive. And I believe that any spoken sentence fragment is appropriate in print.

I feel very passionate that the language belongs to the working people, not their grandparents. To the writers, not their editors. To the coffee houses, not the colleges.

And goddammit, David Mamet dialogue should be the MODEL for authenticity in English communication.

[KevinTBrown]

Man, someone sure is champing at the bit here....

[The Zapper]

Man, someone sure is champing at the bit here....

BOOOOO! hiss hiss BOOOOO!

[Reverend Smooth]

Oxford commas are sometimes necessary. ^^;

[Cayman]

It's a great phrase. Perhaps instead of using "chomping at the bit", you could use another phrase that conveys a similar meaning.

[Karen El]

No grammer is write or wrong except by the word of the people who speak a language.

It's generally useful if we have some agreed rules and make an effort to keep to them. Even a misplaced comma can change the sense of a sentence, and when you see a comment that reads as a positive statement, but in context has to be a negative one, it's confusing for even a native speaker. I hate to think how migraine-inducing it can be for someone to whom English is a secondary language.

And while I would never be so picky as to criticize someone for misspelling grammar in a post about grammar, I am inclined to point and mock at the use of "write and wrong".

[Reverend Smooth]

I suggest that folks look at 13th-17th century writing to see the problem with no standardised set of grammar and spelling.

Chyches (Chickpeas w. Garlic, Saffron & Spices)

Tack chiches and wrye hem in askes al nyЗt oÞer al a day, oÞer lay hem in hoot aymers. At morowe waische hem in clene water, and do hem ouere the fire with clene water. SeeÞ hem vp and do Þerto oyle, garlek hoel, safroun, powdour fort and salt;seeÞ it and messe it forth.

Take chickpeas and cover them in ashes all night and all day, or lay them in hot embers [i.e. roast]. The next day, wash them in clene water and cook them over the fire with clean water. Simmer them and add oil, whole garlic, saffron, poudre forte and salt; simmer and serve.

Tart in ymbre day (Onion & Cheese Pie)

Tart in ymbre day. Take and perboile oynouns & erbis & presse out Þe water & hewe hem smale. Take grene chese & bray it in a mortar, and temper it vp with ayren. Do Þerto butter, safroun & salt, & raisouns corauns, & a litel sugur with powdour douce, & bake it in a trap, & serue it forth.

Tart in Ember Day. Boil onions and herbs, drain and mince them up. Take cottage/farmers/ricotta cheese, break it down, then thicken with eggs. Add butter, saffron, salt, raisins (not currants), a little sugar and powder douce, then back in a pie case.

[neutronjockey]

So I JUST discovered that the more proper form of the phrase "chomping at the bit" is "champing at the bit".

However, further research shows that the words share almost all meanings and that the verb "to champ" in completely out of use except for in the phrase "champing at the bit".

Furthermore, they're both words from the 16th century and people have been trying to phase out "champing" since then. Similar to "stamping" being replaced with "stomping" in many cases or any number of similar changes.

It irks me a bit that people suggest that "champing at the bit" is proper since the minority of people use it and the word is all but dead elsewhere in American English.

Language is defined by usage. No grammer is write or wrong except by the word of the people who speak a language.

Gonna sound stupid here but I will FIGHT for omitting the Oxford comma, eliminating archaic words which have been replaced, the RIGHT of all speakers to create new coinages and for the absolute and undeniable grammatical correctitude of the split infinitive. And I believe that any spoken sentence fragment is appropriate in print.

I feel very passionate that the language belongs to the working people, not their grandparents. To the writers, not their editors. To the coffee houses, not the colleges.

And goddammit, David Mamet dialogue should be the MODEL for authenticity in English communication.

*where's Larry when I need the grammar/diction joke?!*

Diction dude. Diction is spoken language. Grammar is written language.

While the word may belong to the writer, it's the acquisitions editor that holds the key to publication.

Grammar, spelling, and understanding the execution of dialogue/diction (the spoken word) outside of narrative or expository passages is important. It has been the rule of thumb to write dialogue as it is naturally spoken for several decades now.

Woman without her man is nothing

Woman, without her man, is nothing.

Woman: Without her, man is nothing.

Grammar and punctuation are powerful tools. Do not treat them as confetti or decoration.

While your initial attack on what is known as a "functional shift" in linguistics is well supported, researched and documented; your irreverent tone is made parody by your circumlocutious arguements and misguided mispellings and misunderstandings of what constitutes grammar:

No grammer is write or wrong except by the word of the people who speak a language.

[Reverend Smooth]

Language is defined by rules, anyway. That's part of what makes it language.

[Infra-Man]

And goddammit, David Mamet dialogue should be the MODEL for authenticity in English communication.

Terse sentences? Quick, choppy shit? Hard-boiled? Lots of fucking cursing?

Four words for you, bitch: You squat to pee! :p

[Flamebird]

I suggest that folks look at 13th-17th century writing to see the problem with no standardised set of grammar and spelling.

Is it bad that I could read those without the translations?

Or am I just showing my age again?:(

[singoalla]

~snip~

Furthermore, they're both words from the 16th century and people have been trying to phase out "champing" since then. Similar to "stamping" being replaced with "stomping" in many cases or any number of similar changes.

It irks me a bit that people suggest that "champing at the bit" is proper since the minority of people use it and the word is all but dead elsewhere in American English.

Chomp = Chew noisily, eating oats.
Champ = Working jaws noisily around bit, not eating.

The reason champ is used is because it means the horse is standing at the gate, noisily working his jaw around the bit in his mouth. He's not standing in the pen eating oats. The chomping horse is eating, the champing horse is waiting.

If you want to describe an impatient horse use the correct word, unless you equal impatient with standing around eating oats. Sorry, but it irks me when people insist on replacing words with words that don't have the same meaning.

Language is defined by usage. No grammar is right or wrong except by the word of the people who speak a language.

Going to sound stupid here but I will FIGHT for omitting the Oxford comma, eliminating archaic words which have been replaced, the RIGHT of all speakers to create new coinages and for the absolute and undeniable grammatical correctitude of the split infinitive. (Removed And) I believe that any spoken sentence fragment is appropriate in print.

Fixed the rest for you.

[Infra-Man]

Why so much ire over the additional comma, btw? It seems like the additional comma is often helpful for eliminating ambiguity in certain sentences.

I don't mind if you use the Oxford comma or not, the latter being the convention of most journalism. My only request is that comma use be consistent throughout a given work/publication.

[Solaris]

Chomp = Chew noisily, eating oats.
Champ = Working jaws noisily around bit, not eating.

The reason champ is used is because it means the horse is standing at the gate, noisily working his jaw around the bit in his mouth. He's not standing in the pen eating oats. The chomping horse is eating, the champing horse is waiting.

If you want to describe an impatient horse use the correct word, unless you equal impatient with standing around eating oats. Sorry, but it irks me when people insist on replacing words with words that don't have the same meaning.



Fixed the rest for you.

Beautiful. Nice check on the definitions. :)

And let's not lose track of the purpose of punctuation: primarily, it indicates or clarifies addtional *meaning* (as neutronjockey illustrated). In many respects, a comma indicates a place where there's a natural pause, in speaking, that often can affect how one perceives the meaning of what's said. Likewise, the uses that are attributed to other punctuation marks help define the meaning of the words with which they are used.

And... I've *always* said "Champing at the bit," not "Chomping," maybe in part because I've at least got enough horse-knowledge to understand the difference.

By the same token, it irks me to see someone misspell "reins." I've seen "reigns" and even "rains" used inappropriately.

Kings, queens, and rulers "reign."

"Reins" are part of a bridle, used to control a horse and guide it---one "pulls back on the reins," and "reins in one's appetite," etc. Also, one gives one's fury "full rein," which going back to the base term equates to loosening the reins to allow the horse to run. "Reining in" means you are tightening in the reins, to slow the horse down or stop it.

And of course, "when it rains, it pours." ;)

And for the non-horse types---the reins attach to the bit and bridle, and are the long part you hold onto from the saddle or, if you're leading the horse, from the ground. The bridle is the harness that fits on the horses's head---the bit is the metal bar that goes into and across the mouth; and, it fits on top of the gums *behind* the teeth. Pressure on the bit causes a trained horse to slow down or stop. Which is why getting the "bit between your teeth" indicates being albe to run without someone controlling you---if a horse gets the bit between it's teeth, pulling on the reins does diddly-squat: he's going to go where *he* wants to go, and as *fast* as he wants to go.

[singoalla]

Hehe, that reins things reminds me of an icon I saw somewhere on Livejournal. Since I'm going to be a teacher and have to deal with constant misspellings, I wrote them down.

You should definitely spell definitely definitely.
If you really did have baited breath, you'd smell rather fishy.
Fire is fiery - burn all misspellings.
You can defuse a bomb. But diffusing it might be a bad idea.
Thru is only a word if you're referring to getting a hamburger in your car.
A lot is two words - allot means to distribute.
Per se means of itself - per say is how it is pronounced.
A horde is a large group - often unfriendly. To hoard means to gather, and often refers to dragons.
Your throws of extacy sends me into throes of amusement.
Et cetera does not abbreviate to ext, ecc or et. c. ETC.
I before E except after c unless sounding like a, as in neighbour or weigh, uless it's weird.

Credit to whomever created the icon.

When you help someone pronounce something, you're helping them with their pronunciation.
Rouge is a cosmetic product that goes on your cheeks. Rogue is an X-Man, or x-woman. Or an unprincipled, deceitful, and unreliable person; a scoundrel or rascal.
'A' goes before any word that starts with a consonant, like BCDFGHJKLMNPQRSTVWXZ. 'An' goes before any word starting with a vowel, like AEIOUY.
Herb starts with an H, and should thus have an A in front of it. Even if you're a weird american or country side english person pronouncing it 'erbs.