Incredible Herc #112 ** Spoilers**

[jackolover]

Just read this today, so sorry for the delay in posting this.

WWH : Aftersmash sets the scene, with both the escape of Cho and Herc, and the Warbound.

Following on from that, Cho and Herc are hunted down, and caught. Herc is told by his brother to join Shield, where Ares would tell Herc what Herc has to do to work off all the damage he did to a helicarrier, and Herc throws Ares through the wall into the tent where Cho is being intervued

See, this is where I didn't understand what Greg Pak did with Cho. Gabby Jones explained to Cho to help with a plan to relocate 100,000 displaced people from New Jersey, but Cho throws it in Jones face. Yet in WWH aftersmash, Cho was willing to help when asked. It's a contradiction. And when Herc and Cho do escape, what does Cho come up with as a plan? To destroy Shield. It makes no sense.

What could have made Cho behave like this was Jones' guilt trip he was laying on Cho, about all the poor little people losing their homes and businesses - Gabby crying in his coffee about other peoples problems, but NOBODY cared that Chos whole family was wiped out. Instead, Shield want to own Cho, and Cho suspects, Shield will use him to be their weapon against other nations, so he scampers.

It seems there is some left over issues between Ares, Hercules, and some birds, that will be worked out in the next issue. But if Greg Pak goes the way I think he is heading, Pak will be walking Herc through the Hell that made Herc murder his own wife and children. Jones makes this big song and dance about Herc siding with the Hulk in WWH and how Herc is so misguided about the Hulk and what happened to Hulks family. But there is Hercules, being told by his brother about the killing of Hercs wife and kids, (also Ares' family), so we may be getting an expose' on the background of how Hercules murdered his whole family (not extended family).

[Will.S]

I'll just copy and paste my review from the other thread.

Outside of the odd nixing of Herc's usual antiquated dialog, the issue was very enjoyable. I didn't realize that there were actual parallels to Herc and Hulk's life with the family issue although I was aware of the labors. Great appearance by Ares and I loved the way he was used to antagonize Hercules and finally have something over him with registration. Nice use of flashbacks as well.

And I have to say, this Khoi Pham's best work. Seriously, this is the best I've ever seen from him, it's sort of a mix of Travel Foreman, Olivier Coipel, and even Pete Woods but much more rough and gritty. Yet it's still his own style, it looks especially good with Stephani Peru's colors which fit perfectly and feels like the way they did the Ares mini when it came to the flashbacks.

So far I'm really digging this book.

[Cthulhudrew]

See, this is where I didn't understand what Greg Pak did with Cho. Gabby Jones explained to Cho to help with a plan to relocate 100,000 displaced people from New Jersey, but Cho throws it in Jones face. Yet in WWH aftersmash, Cho was willing to help when asked. It's a contradiction. And when Herc and Cho do escape, what does Cho come up with as a plan? To destroy Shield. It makes no sense.

Cho didn't have a problem with the plan to help the displaced people. When he takes Gabe's computer and starts messing around with it, he finds what are presumably long term plans for SHIELD to use him to assist with their weapons programs. That's the key moment in the scene- when he's finding top secret information on the laptop. If he hadn't found anything incriminating on it, he likely would have gone along with the program (as evidenced by how quickly he shuts up when confronted with his part in causing all those people to lose their homes).

[Fatguy]

It was an excellent start ro Herc's reign on this title ;)

I'm REALLY looking forward to more Ares vs. Hercules.

[jackolover]

Cho didn't have a problem with the plan to help the displaced people. When he takes Gabe's computer and starts messing around with it, he finds what are presumably long term plans for SHIELD to use him to assist with their weapons programs. That's the key moment in the scene- when he's finding top secret information on the laptop. If he hadn't found anything incriminating on it, he likely would have gone along with the program (as evidenced by how quickly he shuts up when confronted with his part in causing all those people to lose their homes).

If that's how you thought it happened, it seemed very vague, on my reading of it, at the time. It just seemed to jump straight from Gabbys proposal, to lets blow up Shield. To me it seemed that Cho had stolen Gabbys laptop and Gabby was afraid of what Cho would find on it. Not that Cho had already found it. That's why I didn't think Cho offered to help people, because of Gabbys arguments being calous with respect to Chos history of family deaths, not because he found a plan by Shield to utilise him. Unless you're saying that screen with the missile drawings, dealt with Cho being used by Shield?

[Stephane Peru]

Hi,
I'm the colorist on this run and, Will S, I'm very glad that you like the look of the book... I, too, think that Khoi Pham shines on these pages and it's getting even better in the issues to come... especially all the flashback scenes of the Olympian.
Just wanted to rectify something, my name is Stephane, not Stephani.... and believe me when I say that I'd not be pretty as a girl.

[mikekerr3]

If that's how you thought it happened, it seemed very vague, on my reading of it, at the time. It just seemed to jump straight from Gabbys proposal, to lets blow up Shield. To me it seemed that Cho had stolen Gabbys laptop and Gabby was afraid of what Cho would find on it. Not that Cho had already found it. That's why I didn't think Cho offered to help people, because of Gabbys arguments being calous with respect to Chos history of family deaths, not because he found a plan by Shield to utilise him. Unless you're saying that screen with the missile drawings, dealt with Cho being used by Shield?

I didn't have to be Shields plan to Use Cho, It could have been anything from a shield factions plan to kill Cho's family to any one of the other criminal plans Shiels has, It could have also been a document signature reminding him who runs Shield.

Shield was tracking him before WWH.

Do you think the organization that built the Cube and help send a american Marine out as a suicide bomb doesn't have other dirty secrets or would refrain from murdering Cho's family to use him.

Destroying Shield is self defense for Cho, he either has to work for the bad guys or Its SPIN time lobotomizing him.

[CaptainCanada]

I just saw Cho summoning up some weapons schematic as "proof" that SHIELD is evil; Jones clearly understands Cho's intellect, so there's no way he'd give him access to a laptop with incriminating information related to Cho on it.

Cho just still thinks this is all SHIELD's fault somehow, because he's a bit of a sociopath and definitely stupid, despite his intellect (as Angel says in this issue).

[Cthulhudrew]

I just saw Cho summoning up some weapons schematic as "proof" that SHIELD is evil;

Good point- to clarify, what Cho found were diagnostics of some kind of plan to use military action against some other nation and jumped to the conclusion that he'd be used similarly. But it wasn't as if there was nothing on the laptop that might have been suspicious.

Jones clearly understands Cho's intellect, so there's no way he'd give him access to a laptop with incriminating information related to Cho on it.

Don't know that I can agree with you there. He's clearly not bright enough to not give Cho a laptop that doesn't have all kinds of highly sensitive, top-secret plans on it, nor to realize that Cho would be able to locate and deactivate the self-destruct mechanism on it. Gabe's not exactly batting a thousand for smart moves here.

[CaptainCanada]

Don't know that I can agree with you there. He's clearly not bright enough to not give Cho a laptop that doesn't have all kinds of highly sensitive, top-secret plans on it, nor to realize that Cho would be able to locate and deactivate the self-destruct mechanism on it. Gabe's not exactly batting a thousand for smart moves here.

Yeah, that was borderline, but he had no way of knowing that Hercules would bust him out just then; merely giving him use of the thing (since, really, he'd need a computer to do the job they wanted) doesn't strike me as especially dangerous, especially since he's already demonstrated the ability to break into whatever he wants already, so it wouldn't especially matter what degree of console. But giving him actual information related to his parents/etc. would transcend that (besides which, Jones wouldn't know anything about such a program, if it existed, I would imagine, given that, while a SHIELD agent in the current climate, he's never been a villain; he's one of Nick Fury's crew, trying to do the right thing).

[mikekerr3]

I just saw Cho summoning up some weapons schematic as "proof" that SHIELD is evil; Jones clearly understands Cho's intellect, so there's no way he'd give him access to a laptop with incriminating information related to Cho on it.

Cho just still thinks this is all SHIELD's fault somehow, because he's a bit of a sociopath and definitely stupid, despite his intellect (as Angel says in this issue).

Gabe is a honorable man

Do you know sometig that Cho doesn't about C thier intentions with Cho? Gabe is a honorable man, His bosses are not. Would not Cho assume that the sinister agency that tricked his friend and was tracking before WWH is the same agency that killed his family. There is some evidence It's not a great leap.

Heroism is often pretty stupid, it involves risk with little prospect for reware. Nothing Cho has done was sociopathic, some misguided but with good intent. He is a Kid just a very smart kid. Smarts and wisdom are not that closely related.

He sees a force of evil and sets out to destroy it, isn't that what heros do?

[Tobias Drake]

I was really hoping the fun dynamic between Hercules and Cho would lead me to like him. I really was. Turns out quite the opposite; Cho is still the cocky, arrogant, conclusion-jumping kid he's been. For a kid so smart, you would think he would actually think things through every once in a while. His biggest failing seems to be arrogance; he thinks he's smarter than the rest of the world and it's dragging him around by the coattails. The kid is begging for an intellectual smackdown.

Herc, however, never ceases to entertain. I love the dynamic between him and Ares and I look forward to seeing it continue. It does, however, bother me how quick he was to break out, given his conviction in turning himself in. He was so sure of himself when he surrendered to S.H.I.E.L.D., but it just took a little bit of egging from Ares and he's gone again? Where did all that conviction go? Was everything he said to Cho as they were turning themselves in just drunken rambling that he didn't really believe?

[mikekerr3]

I was really hoping the fun dynamic between Hercules and Cho would lead me to like him. I really was. Turns out quite the opposite; Cho is still the cocky, arrogant, conclusion-jumping kid he's been. For a kid so smart, you would think he would actually think things through every once in a while. His biggest failing seems to be arrogance; he thinks he's smarter than the rest of the world and it's dragging him around by the coattails. The kid is begging for an intellectual smackdown.

Herc, however, never ceases to entertain. I love the dynamic between him and Ares and I look forward to seeing it continue. It does, however, bother me how quick he was to break out, given his conviction in turning himself in. He was so sure of himself when he surrendered to S.H.I.E.L.D., but it just took a little bit of egging from Ares and he's gone again? Where did all that conviction go? Was everything he said to Cho as they were turning themselves in just drunken rambling that he didn't really believe?

I think he figure any side with Ares on it was the wrong side. Who was the idiot that had Ares interview Herc?

The Kid is very arrogant, Knows he's about as smart as anyone is and he is scared silly, he has no one he can trust and sees no other options but to fight the nearest suitable enemy. his normal best bet would be to run but there is nowhere he can run from Shield who he has reason to believe is corrupt. To be safe from Shield he needs to destroy it.

[steve2275]

i think herc should trim off his beard by half

[Cthulhudrew]

Yeah, that was borderline, but he had no way of knowing that Hercules would bust him out just then; merely giving him use of the thing (since, really, he'd need a computer to do the job they wanted) doesn't strike me as especially dangerous, especially since he's already demonstrated the ability to break into whatever he wants already, so it wouldn't especially matter what degree of console.

I think it was definitely questionable. Giving Cho a computer is like giving an unarmed Punisher a gun, or an unarmed Bullseye... well, anything. You're asking for trouble if he's not a known ally (which he clearly wasn't).

Gabe and S.H.I.E.L.D. are constantly underestimating the kid, and that's why they keep having to many problems with him.

The whole Herc/Cho versus Everyone notion can only last for so long, though, I freely admit. Especially since they aren't up against your typical BWAHAHA! EVILLL! villains, but the good guys (despite some wishy washiness in recent depictions of S.H.I.E.L.D., I still tend to think of them as the good guys). Hopefully it won't last more than a couple of issues before they settle into a more stable (and sustainable) direction for the series.