"Our Gods Wear Spandex" Reveals Secret History of Comic Book Heroes

[Green Lantern wannabe]

There are only so many poses that a human body can make, and most themes are similar, the way West Side Story is similar to Romeo and Juliet, or, the way Romeo and Juliet is similar to the Greek tragedies.

Nothing is ever truly new.

[CBR News]

Writer Chris Knowles suggested last week on CBR that images on the cover of “Action Comics” #1 may have been borrowed from a Renaissance painting of Hercules. He’s back in part 1 of a detailed comparison of the works.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/ne...m.cgi?id=12480

["O" the Humanatee!]

He's also a spectacular poster... he always adds something thoughtful and interesting. i wish he posted more.

Thanks for the kind words - but are you sure you're not confusing me with someone else? I think the only times I've posted to CBR are what comes up on the search: two comments on the Action #1 swipe controversy, and three comments on the Top 100 Comics Artists poll. I don't frequent the CBR Forums, only looking at them when led here from blogs I read (respectively, the Comics Reporter and Comics Should Be Good!). I do post a little more frequently to various blogs, though I think I've only been using my pseudonym ("O" the Humanatee!) for about a year.

In any case, I'll take what praise I can get!

[Aaron Kashtan]

There are only so many poses that a human body can make, and most themes are similar, the way West Side Story is similar to Romeo and Juliet, or, the way Romeo and Juliet is similar to the Greek tragedies.

Nothing is ever truly new.

Well, that's not the best example because West Side Story was specifically based on Romeo and Juliet, and Shakespeare is known to have read the Greek playwrights and/or other writers who were influenced by them.

[Rik Sunn]

This guy totally lost me when he made the mistake of citing Gerard Jones as an "expert" on superhero comics. The main disdains superheroes, badmouths comics left and right and has to have balls the size of boulders to have written books on the medium. It's a disgrace.

[polystyleneman]

You know, the fact that the character of Superman is largely inspired and influenced by Hercules is pretty well established, but I think the author here is stretching the similarities in the image to fit his predetermined opinion rather than the other way around. I'm sure with research we could find countless images throughout art history that have similarities to pieces in comic book art history and there will be no direct connection.

[StoneGold]

Well, that's not the best example because West Side Story was specifically based on Romeo and Juliet, and Shakespeare is known to have read the Greek playwrights and/or other writers who were influenced by them.

And we know that Siegel knew about Hercules, too. And that for the most part, he swiped Superman from Philip Wylie's Gladiator.

[Indigo Al]

This guy totally lost me when he made the mistake of citing Gerard Jones as an "expert" on superhero comics. The main disdains superheroes, badmouths comics left and right and has to have balls the size of boulders to have written books on the medium. It's a disgrace.

He has? Where? How?

[CLKnowles]

You know, the fact that the character of Superman is largely inspired and influenced by Hercules is pretty well established, but I think the author here is stretching the similarities in the image to fit his predetermined opinion rather than the other way around. I'm sure with research we could find countless images throughout art history that have similarities to pieces in comic book art history and there will be no direct connection.

Well, as the scientist says, repeat the experiment. If you feel that is true and that militates against my evidence, provide examples. Remember, I'm showing exact angles of objects in identical orientations. I am certainly open to your argument- let's see the data.

And stay tuned for the next installment, this story gets weird...

[CLKnowles]

There are only so many poses that a human body can make, and most themes are similar, the way West Side Story is similar to Romeo and Juliet, or, the way Romeo and Juliet is similar to the Greek tragedies.

Nothing is ever truly new.

Well, tune in tomorrow and I'll tell you why this particular pose is so significant.

[Rik Sunn]

He has? Where? How?

He used to do "official" chats for DC on AOL, and being a big GL fan, I ended up talking to him a lot. The guy thought he was too good for superhero comics and was always pretty pissed when pressed to talk about his history in the business. I can't remember a specific interview where he's done it on the record, but a friend of mine who is a respected pro and has known Jones for years has the same opinion and experience as me.

[Paul Smith]

I'm not buyin' this. It's too much of a stretch. The poses don't match up and your line work doesn't line up to the art. The horizon doesn't match up. The bodies are at different angles. The heads are at different angles, the chest is at a different angle, the legs are in different positions, as are the arms.

To suggest the arms had to be changed for storytelling purposes makes no sense. Storytelling wise, if this were the source, it would be far more powerful for Superman to one hand the car.

What Multi million dollar Madison Avenue ad agencies and their seasoned professionals have in the way of equipment is, most likely, far different than the equipment found in the bedroom of a child in Cleveland.

I'm not saying it's impossible but, given the complete lack of evidence, the wild differences in the works, the fact that what you've written doesn't match the art. It just doesn't add up to a photo swipe.

The closest I could come to believing would be if you're argument had suggested Joe "quoted from memory" something he'd seen in a book years before. But, first you'd have to find the book and then you'd need to put it in Joe's hands.

Fun read, though.

[CLKnowles]

I'm not buyin' this. It's too much of a stretch. The poses don't match up and your line work doesn't line up to the art. The horizon doesn't match up. The bodies are at different angles. The heads are at different angles, the chest is at a different angle, the legs are in different positions, as are the arms.

Right. I addressed the fact that the figure is different in the opening paragraph. The bodies are most definitely not at different angles which I show in one of the diagrams in the article.

To suggest the arms had to be changed for storytelling purposes makes no sense. Storytelling wise, if this were the source, it would be far more powerful for Superman to one hand the car.

It also may have looked stupid and been redrawn. Look again at the anatomy and linework of the Superman figure.

What Multi million dollar Madison Avenue ad agencies and their seasoned professionals have in the way of equipment is, most likely, far different than the equipment found in the bedroom of a child in Cleveland.

Which child are you referring to? I don't know if you mean Siegel and Shuster, but they were both in their 20's and were both published professionals.

I linked to examples of the kind of equipment they could have used in the article. This equipment wasn't like the stuff admen use, but did the job and was sold to ordinary consumers. The link mentions that one of the early models was used to project postcards, which were a popular artform at the turn of the century.

He also could done it another way. Just presenting a viable theory.

I'm not saying it's impossible but, given the complete lack of evidence, the wild differences in the works, the fact that what you've written doesn't match the art. It just doesn't add up to a photo swipe.

Well, as I said, it's not a straight swipe at all. In the article, I compared it to what artists like Alex Ross do with their reference and what every storyboard artist does every day and what old school illustrators were taught in school to do.

The closest I could come to believing would be if you're argument had suggested Joe "quoted from memory" something he'd seen in a book years before. But, first you'd have to find the book and then you'd need to put it in Joe's hands.

Fun read, though.

Cheers, Paul. I did the find the book and showed that it was in print in America in a popular edition long before Action #1. That's in the article too. Also, the Pollauoio piece is a very well-known painting and has been reprinted in several books. It's considered a masterpiece of Renaissance art.

And again, the pose itself has profound meaning, and has been seen in different permutations. Check again tomorrow.

[Mart]

How on earth does he think he's proving his case with a diagram when on that diagram he writes?

Main characters at identical angle. Details changed to fit style and tell story.

What a load of tosh - why is CBR pushing this as if it has particular credence?

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

It still feels like the evidence is being found to support the theory, not that theory came about due to the evidence.
I don't feel this should be getting put in CBR as 'news'* as it just doesn't have enough proof to hold it together.



*Though to be fair, CBR isn't exactly the place to come to get more than a puff piece.