Popular Comics Tracker Threatened with Legal Action

[The Batman]

Comic shop people can be notoriously bad business people. Having run out of ways to make their stores uninviting, they've discovered a method to make sure people have no need to enter them in the first place. That and uploading comic probably gets them props online.

[Michael P]

What SHOCKED me and you should deeply reflect upon is that you mention that poor people are better of stealing food, clothes or medication.


have you never heard of the concept that poor people can WORK and WORK VERY HARD to be able to get what you take for granted? Do you really think poor people all resort to stealing things?

Better off stealing those as opposed to stealing frippery like comics. Any assumptions about the necessity of stealing were yours.

AND, have you never thought that societies are not divided solely into just rich-miserable? there is a whole spectrum there and there are people who work hard to be able to afford a minimum amount of leisure and information (and that will never make them rich or even near that)?

Being a writer who lives in New York City, makes $30,000 a year before taxes and pays for his own health insurance, I am vaguely familiar with the concept, yes.

See, now that was ironic.

[The Batman]

Also, you seem to be saying that it's okay for poor people to steal comics they can't afford instead of working for them so I'm not sure it's fair to get on Michael P's case for saying that poor people steal.

I see Michael P already made the same point.

[J. Robb]

Nope, 100% serious.

I realize this idea seems antithetic to your entire worldview, but wanting something does not confer a right to have it. Nor does scarcity make stealing not stealing.

You're already an admitted "thief" yourself, I'd say you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.

It's sad how much of this thread has just been people covering their ears and yelling "thief! stealing!"

[The Batman]

Most people, the people that are doing it anyways, aren't saying that it should stop; only that it shouldn't be prettied up as something other than trying to get a bunch of stuff as easy and cheap as possible

[J. Robb]

Most people, the people that are doing it anyways, aren't saying that it should stop; only that it shouldn't be prettied up as something other than trying to get a bunch of stuff as easy and cheap as possible

So this entire thread has just been self-loathing downloaders trying to make the openly downloader feel the same, sad shame?

[Guapo Méndez]

Downloading comics is not a necessity.

so? by your standards then, people (especially in less-developed places) should be content only with food, shelter and clothing, maybe lower-school education.

i disagree. culture, art and entertainment are necessities as well. they are linked to mental health and general happiness.

Sure.
Doesn't change that you have to pay for it.

Net access (home or cyber-cafe) costs money. If you can afford that, you can afford comics.

sorry, but that is a very misinformed comment. net access is one of the chepest things anywhere in Latin America where telecommunications has been privatized. it is possible to spend an afternoon in a popular cyber place for only 10 dollars. and if you can stay 12 hours overnight for the same price.

Save your net-surfing money and buy comics.
It's like wireless net access. It's not cool to use a wireless antenna to hook up your machine to someone else's wireless account.

And getting hard-to-get comics is basic stuff for any comics collector worth his salt.

and what if you are a comics lover, reader, appreciator who doesn't give a toss about collecting comics and would rather hand them down to other people or use them in your teaching?

Nothing.
You just have to pay for what you get. If someone else lent you the comic, cool. If you don't have the money, try to get them from a library (I've been to several non-US ones with a good comic book selection) or buy them secondhand from collectors that want to get rid of them.

the comics collector is a figure associated with the boom in the nineties and GOOD FOR THEM that they can shell out three or four zeroes to buy a graded comic in a box to admire.

I bought my comics to read, not to sell for jacked-up prices. I have over 5,000. I haven't sold one in over 10 years. I am a collector.

torrenting goes the opposite way....it's done buy people who don't give a rat's a** about the graded boxed paper comics...they go for the content, the story and the reading experience solely. they don't sell the downloads that they read, they don't profit from it, they don't speculate on it.

And they don't contribute to the market that creates them. Creators are entitled to money for the comics they produce. Comic companies are entitled to the money the comic costs to make.
If comic-book sales drop, the comic disappears. If there are more downloaders than buyers, the comic disappears.

You wouldn't believe the searches I made when I wanted my comics and how much I shelled for shipping and handling.

why wouldn't i?

Days upon days of finding tangential references and doing some serious detectiver work to track funnybooks. Not many understand that, but I guess you do.

A Miracleman TPB required a 4 month search, with over 200 messages in whatever comic book sites existed in 1998 and it cost me 240 bucks (100 for the comic, 40 for shipping and 100 in taxes).

[Paul McEnery]

Nope, 100% serious.

I realize this idea seems antithetic to your entire worldview, but wanting something does not confer a right to have it. Nor does scarcity make stealing not stealing.

Well exactly. It's the opposite of scarcity -- the inexhaustibility of digital reproduction -- that makes stealing not stealing.

And I mean that seriously. Technologies always alter economic reality, and in this case, we move from a scarcity economy to a gift economy, from a commodity economy to a labour economy.

One of these days, I must bone up on my Benjamin. I bet he's got something to say about all this.

[Paul McEnery]

Nothing.
You just have to pay for what you get. If someone else lent you the comic, cool. If you don't have the money, try to get them from a library (I've been to several non-US ones with a good comic book selection) or buy them secondhand from collectors that want to get rid of them.

Okay, I really don't get this. To me, this totally seems like a distinction without a difference. What, to you, is the big difference between reading something from a library and reading something from the Net? Because I honestly don't see that there is one. Or, for that matter, streaming something online rather than borrowing the disc from the library?

I mean, I shifted my behaviour mostly towards second hand or discount books, and going to the video store, partly because it's quicker, but also because I like participating in the economy (and I feel the library doesn't really do that). In the same way, I support the media and the product that I want to support, while staying in touch with the other stuff, just to see how it goes.

A Miracleman TPB required a 4 month search, with over 200 messages in whatever comic book sites existed in 1998 and it cost me 240 bucks (100 for the comic, 40 for shipping and 100 in taxes).

You sir, are a crazy man. Also, I do not have that book, so you make me sad.

(I might still have the original Warriors back in England, though.)

[Kid Omega]

So this entire thread has just been self-loathing downloaders trying to make the openly downloader feel the same, sad shame?

I've never illegally downloaded anything.

Nothing.

[Brandon Hanvey]

Okay, I really don't get this. To me, this totally seems like a distinction without a difference. What, to you, is the big difference between reading something from a library and reading something from the Net? Because I honestly don't see that there is one. Or, for that matter, streaming something online rather than borrowing the disc from the library?

You said it yourself. Supply. On the net there is no real limit on supply other than the limits the provider puts or the limits of bandwidth.

A library can only have so many copies of a book at a single time. It can't produce a copy every time someone wants a certain book.

[The Batman]

So this entire thread has just been self-loathing downloaders trying to make the openly downloader feel the same, sad shame?

Nope, open downloaders trying to get people to quit dressing it up in fancy clothes and call it what it is.

[Always Hungry]

I do think it's wrong, but the more I think about it the more I don't want to call it theft. AFter all nothing physically is taken, only data which turns into a readable comic. Aren't we all DL data of sorts from all different websites or threads?

[Guapo Méndez]

Okay, I really don't get this. To me, this totally seems like a distinction without a difference. What, to you, is the big difference between reading something from a library and reading something from the Net? Because I honestly don't see that there is one. Or, for that matter, streaming something online rather than borrowing the disc from the library?

It's like the used-car market. Someone else paid full price for the model and that keeps the industry going. I just go in and pick up the scraps. It's factored in and it's also something that lets me feel morally-ethically ok.
Mind you, I've taken huge advantage of comic books in libraries bit. During college I read the entire Asterix saga from the library.

I mean, I shifted my behaviour mostly towards second hand or discount books, and going to the video store, partly because it's quicker, but also because I like participating in the economy (and I feel the library doesn't really do that). In the same way, I support the media and the product that I want to support, while staying in touch with the other stuff, just to see how it goes.

Agreed. But ultimately the product has been paid for and the number of people loaned to is not that big. And it has the potential to turn you from reader to buyer (I'm assembling my spanish Asterix collection, btw).

You sir, are a crazy man. Also, I do not have that book, so you make me sad.
(I might still have the original Warriors back in England, though.)

It's the one with the epic Miracleman-Kid Miracleman fight.

Awe-some.

I keep it (and my collection) under lock and key.

[J. Robb]

Nope, open downloaders trying to get people to quit dressing it up in fancy clothes and call it what it is.

So if everyone uses the word "stealing" instead of "file-sharing" and "thief" instead of "downloader", the bickering will stop and we can actually discuss this new reality?

Because if so, I'm down with that.