Reality over fantasy when it comes to horror?

[JohnPopa]

I do agree with the assertion out there that draping horror in reality is a bit of a cop out. I mean, everyone knows reality can be horrirific so just exploiting that isn't always as creative as a story could be. I do have a bit more respect for horror movies that can scare me with the impossible - it's a testament to the storytelling and creators that they can rattle me with something so illogical.

I'm not against 'real' horrors but I do tend to tire of them right now.

[Comic_Mobsta]

As for complaints about 'Descent' and 'Jeepers Creepers', I think that comes more down to execution rather than a preference for realism vs fantasy..

No, They was very specific in their dislike of the Monster elements not the execution. Either way i was referring to the people that DO prefer Reality over fantasy. Not whether it was poorly executed or not.

[BoosterBronze]

I just watched Halloween and Friday the 13th last night.

It got me thinking how Micheal Myers and Jason started off as human monsters, and slowly became supernatural based on two factors.

1- increasingly elabortae excused to bring them back to life for the sequals.

2- A need to increase the gore factor in their killings to shock audiences.

I wonder if, had a supernatural element been a key part in the original story, how would the characters have elvolved diffeently?

(Ps. Ever notice that you can call Freddy Krueger and Jason Vorhees just Freddy and Jason, but you always have to include Micheal Myers full name or else it sounds wrong?)

[Rattlehead]

I just watched Halloween and Friday the 13th last night.

It got me thinking how Micheal Myers and Jason started off as human monsters, and slowly became supernatural based on two factors.

1- increasingly elabortae excused to bring them back to life for the sequals.

2- A need to increase the gore factor in their killings to shock audiences.

I wonder if, had a supernatural element been a key part in the original story, how would the characters have elvolved diffeently?

(Ps. Ever notice that you can call Freddy Krueger and Jason Vorhees just Freddy and Jason, but you always have to include Micheal Myers full name or else it sounds wrong?)

I'm not really sure Micheal Myers wasn't supernatural to begin with, and to a lesser extent, Jason. Myers, if you ignore the craptastic Zombie version, isn't really human. He's evil incarnate, and has no human qualities whatsoever. He's just a walking manifestation of Hell itself, thus he cannot be killed.

Jason is never really portrayed as being human eithier. He does indeed die as a child at the bottom of the lake, and is really just a glorified zombie. A trapped soul, sentenced to wander the earth until his vengeance for his own death and his perceived mistreatment of his mother is sastisfied.

Of course, these interpretations are a really simplistic form of the supernatural, but it's there nontheless. Now of course the supernatural elements became much more elaborate as each respective series went on.

[hoffmandu]

I totally dig monsters in horror flicks, as long as there's a fairly original aspect to it. I loved the crawlers in Decent, in fact, that was one of most entertaining horror flicks I've seen in years. I may even have jumped a few times, which never happens. The human monster angle can be decent, but it's just too hard to pull off.

[StoneGold]

Good horror is good horror. The device used to justify the baddie is relatively inconsequential. As long as the device isn't bad itself.

[The Zapper]

I still think it was a cop-out. I would have rather had a Lord of the Flies thing going on between them, instead of being attacked by some creature. Being betrayed by a good friend can happen in real life, being eaten by a humanoid bat, not so much.

So you don't like monsters and want people killing other people. There are plenty of movies like that, not every horror movie is going to be what you want them to be (Thank goodness).

I'm not really sure Micheal Myers wasn't supernatural to begin with, and to a lesser extent, Jason. Myers, if you ignore the craptastic Zombie version, isn't really human. He's evil incarnate, and has no human qualities whatsoever. He's just a walking manifestation of Hell itself, thus he cannot be killed.

Yes, that's what I was thinking as well.

[Rattlehead]

So you don't like monsters and want people killing other people. There are plenty of movies like that, not every horror movie is going to be what you want them to be (Thank goodness).



Yes, that's what I was thinking as well.

I didn't say I didn't like monsters. I said I didn't feel the monsters were a wise choice for that particular film. Hell, the SAW franchise has plenty of humans killing other humans, and I hate those movies.

[The Zapper]

I didn't say I didn't like monsters. I said I didn't feel the monsters were a wise choice for that particular film. Hell, the SAW franchise has plenty of humans killing other humans, and I hate those movies.

I misunderstood your viewpoint it would seem, and yes, the Saw films suck long and they suck hard. Anyway, The Descent is one of my favorite horror movies to come out in the last several years....maybe it's the only horror movie I like that has come out recently. I really hate the current crop of horror movies and think we need more movies as good as The Descent. Now The Cave....Now THAT was a shitty movie set in a cave.

[BoosterBronze]

I'm not really sure Micheal Myers wasn't supernatural to begin with, and to a lesser extent, Jason. Myers, if you ignore the craptastic Zombie version, isn't really human. He's evil incarnate, and has no human qualities whatsoever. He's just a walking manifestation of Hell itself, thus he cannot be killed.

Jason is never really portrayed as being human eithier. He does indeed die as a child at the bottom of the lake, and is really just a glorified zombie. A trapped soul, sentenced to wander the earth until his vengeance for his own death and his perceived mistreatment of his mother is sastisfied.

Of course, these interpretations are a really simplistic form of the supernatural, but it's there nontheless. Now of course the supernatural elements became much more elaborate as each respective series went on.

Excepting the final vanishing moment when Myers's body isn't on the lawn at the end of 'Halloween,' nothing he does in the film can be considered supernatural.

And while it's been a couple years since I've watched "Friday 13th 2" I beleive it's implied Jason did indeed survive as a kid, and he's just a normal dude who's been living in the woods. Excepting crushing a dudes skull with his bare hands in #3, I don't recall him having any supernatural moments in the first three or four movies.

Halloween 1 is about a REALLY evil guy, but he is just a guy. Friday the 13th 1-3 (maybe four) is just about a really tough evil guy and his mom, but they're still portrayed as just people.

[The Zapper]

Excepting the final vanishing moment when Myers's body isn't on the lawn at the end of 'Halloween,' nothing he does in the film can be considered supernatural.

Well, most Halloween fans point out the great speech that Dr. Loomis gives explaining Michael Myers as proof, or as much proof as you could get, that Michael isn't human. That's what was so awesome about that movie. You don't know what Michael is, you just know that he's simply...evil.

[The Zapper]

Halloween 1 is about a REALLY evil guy, but he is just a guy.

If that's how you want to view it, great, but I strongly disagree. The end of the movie disagrees as well so.....

[JohnPopa]

If that's how you want to view it, great, but I strongly disagree. The end of the movie disagrees as well so.....

One thing that, I think, makes 'Halloween' work so well (and the sequels not so much) is that we don't understand the scope of him in that first movie. He could be just another guy with a knife but we learn at the end of the first movie that he most certainly is not that -- proving what Loomis had been saying all along. One of the many reasons the sequels suffer is that everyone knows going in he's invincible so there's less suspense since we know no one really has a chance against him physically.

I never watched Friday the 13th Parts 2 and/or 3 (and I saw them in the theater) as ever implying Jason wasn't supernatural.

[BoosterBronze]

I misunderstood your viewpoint it would seem, and yes, the Saw films suck long and they suck hard. Anyway, The Descent is one of my favorite horror movies to come out in the last several years....maybe it's the only horror movie I like that has come out recently. I really hate the current crop of horror movies and think we need more movies as good as The Descent. Now The Cave....Now THAT was a shitty movie set in a cave.

I didn't care for Descent. But "The Cave" was one of the stupidest, least scary, least exciting movies i have ever seen. I was watching it at the $1 movies, just killing time before I met up with some people. I hated it SO MUCH I went out to the lobby of the theater and just sat on the bench for an hour rather than watch another seconds of that crap.

[The Zapper]

One thing that, I think, makes 'Halloween' work so well (and the sequels not so much) is that we don't understand the scope of him in that first movie. He could be just another guy with a knife but we learn at the end of the first movie that he most certainly is not that -- proving what Loomis had been saying all along. One of the many reasons the sequels suffer is that everyone knows going in he's invincible so there's less suspense since we know no one really has a chance against him physically.

I agree with all of that. I still like a few of the sequels (nothing to do with that stupid stupid stupid Thorn Cult garbage) though.