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  1. #1
    Senior Member lonewolf23k's Avatar
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    Default Burned out on Epic Crossovers

    ...After Identity Crisis, Infinite Crisis, House of M, Civil War, 52, Countdown, and more recently WWH, I am now officially burned out on Epic mega-title Crossovers by the Big Two...

    I don't know how World War Hulk is going to end, and at this point I don't give a f*** anymore. They've hyped this for so long and to such an extent, making this event take up over half of the Marvel Universe, that I'm retreating to titles that have nothing to do with it, just to get away from the overhyped event.

    ...Am I the only one who feels this way?
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  2. #2

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    Inclined to agree. The list you gave is like a Hits list of the most wretched superhero comics in the genre's history....and they're all recent releases. And you even left some stinkers out, like Avengers Disassembled and Spider-Man: The Other. :(

    It seems like after a brief period of auteur-driven superhero comics that could be genuinely great and appeal to non-fans, we've gone back to middling event-driven comics where you read out of morbid curiosity for the status quo changes, assuming you have some sort of past connection to the characters in the first place. The authors are no longer the main selling point in mainstream comics, and that really grates.

  3. #3
    Elder Member Shellhead's Avatar
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    All of these recent crossovers, without exception, have been crappy. And very expensive for the poor fools who buy all of the related issues.

    However, 52 was not a crossover. All you had to buy to keep up with 52 was each of the 52 issues. No need to cross over into other titles, because they very specifically *couldn't* crossover... 52 covered the year that all the other DC comics skipped. 52 was of variable quality, but overall I would rate it as good.
    "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
    Martin Luther King Jr., Letter from Birmingham Jail, April 16, 1963

  4. #4

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    Unfortunately 52 spun out of a crossover, required just as much continuity knowledge as the average crossover, and set up future crossovers. Chronologically it was seperate from the One Year Later books, but it was still very much an event-driven book. So I think it's fair to lump it in the same wretched catalog as Identitiy and Infinite Crisis.

    That, and I thought it ran out of steam early on; I was reading it in the trades, and while I liked the first, I was bored with the second, and am not going to bother with the third.

  5. #5
    More Donald than Charlie stealthwise's Avatar
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    I was burnt out by Infinity Crusade, and I never quite recovered from crap like Heroes Reborn.

    Bought Identity and Infinite Crisis and the beginning of Civil War, but now I've just given up on enjoying most mainstream superhero titles. Guys like Brubaker and PAD do a great job of writing around those crossovers and actually expanding on those concepts, but they'll be damned hard to read and understand years from now, when the crossovers are long forgotten.
    - Art is whatever makes you feel human.

    - "You are what you love, not what loves you." - Donald Kaufman

    - "Deserve's got nothing to do with it." - William Munny

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  6. #6
    Groucho Marxiste Omar Karindu's Avatar
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    I wouldn't mind a genuinely epic crossover, but we really don't get those most of the time. The only crossover that ever truly felt "epic" to me was the original Crisis, which managed to have the scope and the scale of epic. And even that had loads of goofy plot points and plot holes (as does the vast majority of Marv Wolfman's work in the superhero genre, to be honest).

    But dammit, Crisis worked in evoking that sense of epic and change; part of that was its inclusion of DC's vast field of non-superhero characters, from Anthro to the WWII heroes to Tommy bloody Tomorrow. That gave the DCU a sense of pulp history a little like the one Planetary does so well with as a deliberately post-epical (or postmodern epical) work. Crisis remains the only time I thought a superhero universe could do real epic as a universe.
    Last edited by Omar Karindu; 09-23-2007 at 10:30 AM. Reason: Me type pretty one day

  7. #7
    Nelson for President! Gloria's Avatar
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    You lucky guys!

    I've been fed up with macro-crossovers ever since the first Secret Wars:It seemed then to me a goofy idea and still does... And the evil they brought!! (=Symbiontes, an idea as lethal to the Spiderman series as the clone sagas)

  8. #8
    Senior Member Ryan Day's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gloria View Post
    I've been fed up with macro-crossovers ever since the first Secret Wars:It seemed then to me a goofy idea and still does... And the evil they brought!! (=Symbiontes, an idea as lethal to the Spiderman series as the clone sagas)
    The first Secret Wars wasn't a crossover (though it did have some continuity consequences), and it wasn't all that bad. Not high art, but there's something delightfully unpretentious about a concept that boils down to "put heroes and villains on another planet and make them fight." It's refreshing compared to today's crossovers that attempt to couch superhero slugfests in Meaningful Drama or Important Political Allegory.

    And the early symbiote/Venom stuff in Spider-Man was great. It was only later that it got out of hand.

  9. #9

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    The first Secret Wars wasn't a crossover (though it did have some continuity consequences), and it wasn't all that bad. Not high art, but there's something delightfully unpretentious about a concept that boils down to "put heroes and villains on another planet and make them fight." It's refreshing compared to today's crossovers that attempt to couch superhero slugfests in Meaningful Drama or Important Political Allegory.
    Then again, just because it's not high art doesn't mean it has to be outright stupid. In retrospect, the first Secret Wars wasn't much more than an attempt to foist the 80's trend of toymakers having tie-in fiction ( usually TV cartoons ) onto the Marvel Universe. Except that those old toy tie-ins were at least intended to be stupid; the Marvel heroes were not, yet Secret Wars reduced them to Autobot and Decepticon levels of depth.

    It wasn't all bad, as there were some good ideas ( like the X-Men and Magneto forming a seperate camp that the other heroes distrusted ), but compared to other books of the era like Claremont's old X-Men, Simonson's Thor, or Denny O'Neil's Iron Man, Secret Wars is much less. Especially the art, which really was below par.

  10. #10
    Toons For Our Times Chris Heide's Avatar
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    At this point I get the feeling Marvel and DC are playing a game of chicken to see who'll pull up from the universe-screwing-up one-mega-crossover-after-another trend first...

  11. #11
    That guy from Puerto Rico Sijo's Avatar
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    DC's current "this crossover runs into another one!" trend is certainly draining. It keeps you from stopping and either taking a break from the dramatic tension or even looking back and savoring what the crossover achieved. Good thing I swore off DC until it stops being so gritty or I would've blown a lot of money on unnecessary crossovers.

    However, I'm not opposed to crossovers per se, as long as a) they're well written and b) they're limited to once or twice a year.

    Developing them from ongoing events on a series rather than dropping them out of the blue helps, too. And they shouldn't affect ALL books unless it makes sense (no "red skies" crossovers).

  12. #12
    Elder Member Shellhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Heide View Post
    At this point I get the feeling Marvel and DC are playing a game of chicken to see who'll pull up from the universe-screwing-up one-mega-crossover-after-another trend first...
    Neither company can afford to stop. Comics have been priced out of reach for most kids, so all DC and Marvel can do is squeeze the existing fanbase for every last dollar, and they have chosen to do so with continuity-laden crossovers. They might as well start aging the characters, since their sales strategy has no future after the current fans die off.
    "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
    Martin Luther King Jr., Letter from Birmingham Jail, April 16, 1963

  13. #13
    More Donald than Charlie stealthwise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shellhead View Post
    Neither company can afford to stop. Comics have been priced out of reach for most kids, so all DC and Marvel can do is squeeze the existing fanbase for every last dollar, and they have chosen to do so with continuity-laden crossovers. They might as well start aging the characters, since their sales strategy has no future after the current fans die off.
    Note the word highlighted there, it's not like they can't actually reach children with their product, they've just given up. Hence all the Showcase/Essential and Omnibus/Absolute volumes and huge busts and expensive toys. Milking is a more appropriate word than squeezing, it would seem.
    - Art is whatever makes you feel human.

    - "You are what you love, not what loves you." - Donald Kaufman

    - "Deserve's got nothing to do with it." - William Munny

    - "Acquiescence. It's not so hard, really. You. Just. Give. In." - Col. Ives

  14. #14

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    Note the word highlighted there, it's not like they can't actually reach children with their product, they've just given up. Hence all the Showcase/Essential and Omnibus/Absolute volumes and huge busts and expensive toys. Milking is a more appropriate word than squeezing, it would seem.
    In all fairness, DC does have their Johnny DC books, which have made enough money outside the direct market to maintain their continued existence. They do have product available for kids if kids wanted it.

    Of course, I tend to think that the often insipid and banal Marvel Adventures/DC Animated books give kids far less credit than they deserve. I wouldn't give something like the Mark Millar Ultimates to an eight year old, but if they can handle surprisingly dark shonen manga/anime like Naruto and Yu-Gi-Oh, surely they could handle the big boys' books if they were readily and easily available?

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by lonewolf23k View Post
    I don't know how World War Hulk is going to end, and at this point I don't give a f*** anymore.

    Who even cares why it started.

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