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  1. #31
    The Skylord FalconX2000's Avatar
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    I have seen nothing from either Crest or Banner of the Stars to suggest that the Abh have anything that could easily bust a planet on its own. They do have vast fleets of very powerful ships and are extremely well trained and coordinated. I'd rate them as possible kings of space in WH40k, but they'd really have to work for it.

    I'd rate Warhammer 40k as just below Stephen Baxter's Xeelee/Human galaxy in power level, and above most other famous Sci-fi universes such as Star Trek or Star Wars.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by FalconX2000 View Post
    I'd rate Warhammer 40k as just below Stephen Baxter's Xeelee/Human galaxy in power level, and above most other famous Sci-fi universes such as Star Trek or Star Wars.
    Not just below. Not by a long shot. Xeeleeverse humanity, in any of its advanced stages, obliterates the Imperium with contemptous ease. These guys throw around stars, reverse engineer Xeelee weaponry and have advanced time travel. The Imperium cannot compete in this level.

    They are also below the Galactic Civilization (particularly in the Children of the Lens stage), the Negation, the Total Annihilation civilizations, the Culture (that speedblitz the hell out of anybody, short of the Flash and the Shrike) and a bunch of others.

  3. #33
    科学のAIM天使 cosmic eagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Estrecca View Post
    This is a matter of seriously fierce debate. The SB.com folks have made many "Force Charts" of sci-fi civilizations that have resulted in little agreement, one hell of a lot of vitriol and some rather bizarre results sometimes. However, using the rankings given in one of the last incarnations (with a few comments about some of the more obscure things):
    Funny how Excession is said to be universe busting when all it did was release a light year-sized Gridfire incursion.

  4. #34
    科学のAIM天使 cosmic eagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FalconX2000 View Post
    I have seen nothing from either Crest or Banner of the Stars to suggest that the Abh have anything that could easily bust a planet on its own. They do have vast fleets of very powerful ships and are extremely well trained and coordinated. I'd rate them as possible kings of space in WH40k, but they'd really have to work for it.

    I'd rate Warhammer 40k as just below Stephen Baxter's Xeelee/Human galaxy in power level, and above most other famous Sci-fi universes such as Star Trek or Star Wars.
    Just below Xeeleeverse? Those guys treat GALAXIES as bullets and time travel as everyday occurences. Thera are many things between them and 40K.

    And even with the Abh in the 40K verse, IMO their navy is not beating a fully awakened Necron fleet.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic eagle View Post
    Funny how Excession is said to be universe busting when all it did was release a light year-sized Gridfire incursion.
    It is speculative, certainly. But it was speculation done by a Culture Mind. Who happen to be much, much, much smarter that us puny mortals. If they considered it a possible scenario (and it most certainly did), then...

    Of course, the Excession was doing things that the Culture considered impossible (like travel between universes), so they might have been willing to believe that it could do virtually anything.

  6. #36
    The Skylord FalconX2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic eagle View Post
    Just below Xeeleeverse? Those guys treat GALAXIES as bullets and time travel as everyday occurences. Thera are many things between them and 40K.

    And even with the Abh in the 40K verse, IMO their navy is not beating a fully awakened Necron fleet.
    What version of Xeelees are you reading?

    Nvm, read the wiki.

    I read of the Xeelee up to the book Exultant. The Xeelee I know of were confined to the centre of the galaxy and fought on the scale of billions of advanced ships and robots. They were hyper-advanced and almost impossible to take down, but they never threw stars around, let alone galaxies.

    And about the Abh, the Necrons are certainly having the morning blues, since they're taking forever to wake up. I say the Abh have a good shot at establishing themselves as a dominant force before that ever happens.
    Last edited by FalconX2000; 09-20-2007 at 04:59 AM.

  7. #37
    科学のAIM天使 cosmic eagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FalconX2000 View Post
    What version of Xeelees are you reading?

    Nvm, read the wiki.

    I read of the Xeelee up to the book Exultant. The Xeelee I know of were confined to the centre of the galaxy and fought on the scale of billions of advanced ships and robots. They were hyper-advanced and almost impossible to take down, but they never threw stars around, let alone galaxies.

    And about the Abh, the Necrons are certainly having the morning blues, since they're taking forever to wake up. I say the Abh have a good shot at establishing themselves as a dominant force before that ever happens.

    I've read Exultant, Transcendent, Vacuum Diagrams, Raft and Ring. Galaxy throwers are the Photino Birds whom the Xeelee have been fighting a CTC war with since the Big Bang. The Xeelee built a giant cosmic Ring whose Kerr metric was a portal to other universes in case the Xeelee lost the photino war.
    Last edited by cosmic eagle; 09-20-2007 at 07:18 AM.

  8. #38
    The Skylord FalconX2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic eagle View Post
    I've read Exultant, Transcendent, Vacuum Diagrams, Raft and Ring. Galaxy throwers are the Photino Birds whom the Xeelee have been fighting a CTC war with since the Big Bang. The Xeelee built a giant cosmic Ring whose Kerr metric was a portal to other universes in case the Xeelee lost the photino war.
    Yeah, I gathered as much. If you take the Xeelee in the Milky Way as of Exultant, I think Warhammer 40K could give them a very serious fight.

    After discovering that Exultant wasn't the last book, I get what you're saying. if you take the Xeelee race as a whole, they're way higher tier.

    You're lucky you didn't read Coalescent though, not a single truly likeable character in the whole book imo. Exultant rocked.:D

  9. #39
    Quasispatial Envoy Arilou's Avatar
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    Heck, I'm not certain the 40Kverse could even take on the Uplift Verse. (Although they'd probably smoke most of the Oxygen-breathing lifeforms)

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arilou View Post
    Heck, I'm not certain the 40Kverse could even take on the Uplift Verse. (Although they'd probably smoke most of the Oxygen-breathing lifeforms)
    The Orders aren't going to start wars against any 40k faction. It is almost a given that they have the technology edge. Or they will if they actually find the relevant details in the Library.

    But they are so extremely echo-friendly that they wouldn't even consider launching the millions of ground campaigns that would be needed to defeat the 40k factions. They are likely to want to find any surviving Old Ones to teach them a lesson or three about the proper behaviour of patron species.

  11. #41
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    Basically, WH40K is 18th century France. Their army is one of the best in the world. Their navy is not by a long shot.

  12. #42
    Quasispatial Envoy Arilou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phrozen View Post
    Basically, WH40K is 18th century France. Their army is one of the best in the world. Their navy is not by a long shot.
    Slightly overvaluing their power as the french navy in the 18th century would most definately be the SECOND best :p

  13. #43
    Senior Member DABishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arilou View Post
    Slightly overvaluing their power as the french navy in the 18th century would most definately be the SECOND best :p
    Good point. How do the ground forces of everybody rank? Same as the overall ranking?

  14. #44
    科学のAIM天使 cosmic eagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phrozen View Post
    Basically, WH40K is 18th century France. Their army is one of the best in the world. Their navy is not by a long shot.
    Umm... while IOM tactics are questionable, their ships are actually downright powerful. Moreso than most SW ships. And the Necron fleet is like a bunch of 21st century warplanes stuck in cavemen times.

    Also, just a thought; an Abh vs an IOM Navigator. Froch vs Warp Eye.
    Last edited by cosmic eagle; 09-20-2007 at 04:05 PM.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arilou View Post
    Slightly overvaluing their power as the french navy in the 18th century would most definately be the SECOND best :p
    Nope. The Netherlands were better then the French Navy. They actually had several wars with Britain and pretty much held their own. Now in the 19th century the British were far ahead of everybody else.

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