Supergirl #21(Spoilers)

[Johnny_Luck]

First off Tony your work on Black Canary mini was excellent, your first issue of Birds of prey was pretty darn good, but your severely screwing the supergirl character up and making it very hard for the following people to fix the issues your causing.

I know you have to do Tie-in stuff like AA/Countdown, but man changing
an already well put together character because you have no effect over the stories your doing or who the villains are(which are the only problems the book had) is just really irritating.

I mean it was bad enough Kelly was forced to make her apologize to crap like powergirl and superman in issue 19 before he left, but you took it one step further and removed her backbone/her darkness/edgeness in issue 20 and had her afraid of superman for making a mistake, which was retarded.

Then in Issue 21 she has a heart to heart with the friggin Kents? Thats basically saying ha ha I am taking her backbone, her strength and making her chick flicky, back boneless hoping to get more female readers and I don't care if it means destroying the character and pissing off the current fans.

This run of supergirl has been the first supergirl run I ever enjoyed.(up til 17/18) It looks like you taken her to a place where they will have to roll with it to a point I might have to drop I book I defended tooth and nail from issue 1 to 17.

You basically have made it impossible for Kelly to change her back from the goody, heart felt, back boneless, chick flicky supergirl you've made her to the dark/edgy, sometimes crazy but does the hero thing when the time calls for it supergirl that actually made her interesting and different instead of the superman in the skirt direction we have going on right now. Why do people like yourself feel the need to try and make her an exact copy of him? its really friggin annoying.

Honestly if Kelly could hire Zatanna to erase/mind wipe everyone of your issues it probably be all the better for supergirl. Or Better yet have her wake up in issue 23 with issues 19-22 being all a dream.

P.S. Chang should be doing the insides, he actually makes her look like a teenager supergirl with decent length clothes rather than a 47 year old with badly shaped legs and ridiculously baggy outfits.

Thank god Johnson seems to know what hes doing, he'' put it back right.

[Johnny_Luck]

36 views 0 replies, that must mean either A) no one wants to admit that I am right or B) everyone knows I am right because they scanned it at the store and put it back because of how bad it looked/was and doesn't feel up to admitting that.

[Joe Acro]

36 views 0 replies, that must mean either A) no one wants to admit that I am right or B) everyone knows I am right because they scanned it at the store and put it back because of how bad it looked/was and doesn't feel up to admitting that.

In my defense, I viewed it once on purpose and once on accident. I haven't commented because I don't check on the title, as I have no interest for the character.

And I'm not sure if Tony's been on to reply.

[Tony Bedard]

Yeah, I'm just now seeing this thread. Johnny Luck, thanks for posting and for putting as much thought and effort in as you did to make your point. Honestly, I appreciate that.

Clearly, we have different takes on the character. Did you also dislike her recent appearances in LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES and BRAVE & THE BOLD? That's the characterization I'm leaning towards. To me, that's who Supergirl should be.

I appreciate the good work Kelly put in, but I didn't get the impression that dark and edgy was the long-term permanent plan for Supergirl. I actually saw it as something to grow out of, the way you eventually grow out of your teenage rebellious phase.

Speaking of which, I'm curious to know how old you are Johnny. An age difference between you and I might have a lot to do with our divergent views of Supergirl. That's not to say if you're younger that I know better. I think we can have completely different takes on a character and both be right. I'm just curious if we have an age difference playing into this.

Anyhow, Johnny Luck, you only have one more of my issues to suffer through. ;-) I happen to think Supergirl should be good, should appreciate family, should regret her mistakes, seek the counsel of loved ones, and learn from them. She almost killed the President. I think it's natural to want to talk to someone after that. I don't think it's weak going to the Kents, I think it's human.

Speaking of which, that's how Renato Guedes draws her: human. She looks like actual human beings look, not like a Victoria's Secret model or a Barbie doll. And, y'know, real girls look pretty damn good. Renato's one of the best artists I've ever worked with, and I'm hoping we get to collaborate again.

[Johnny_Luck]

I'm 22, so I pretty sure I am younger than you are.

I also hated her B&B stuff, too cutesy in 2, too way out of character and old looking in 4.

[Johnny_Luck]

I'm 22, so I pretty sure I am younger than you are.

I also hated her B&B stuff, too cutesy in 2, too way out of character and old looking in 4.

That being said, I also want to point out its okay to regret mistakes and learn from them, but you don't have to make it so that your betterment relies on others telling you how you should be or what you are. It seems like it Superman and Kents are doing that and shes actually listening to that crap in your issues.

She IMHo should be self reliant in some areas. Also think we disagree on the fact she should be lovey dovy with everyone compared to edgy and dangerous enough to be considered a threat. Theres a huge difference as well between appreciating family and being afraid of family because they are olde in human years than they supergirl is.

Even Though Clark isn't close family and I prefer it stay that way, I definately wouldn't mind it so much if she had enough backbone to tell him she was just as good if not better than he is, because IMHO she is. Kellys supergirl would IMHO have had that backbone and would have stood her ground on being tough on these issues.

Rento being the best you worked with? Really? I definately think Nicola Scott and Paulo Sequeira are mountians better in their artwork any day of the week.

[Tony Bedard]

I'm 40. I'm a dad. I think those things probably have a lot to do with our divergent viewpoints on this, but these things are always personal judgment calls, anyway. Again, I totally appreciate your input here, and the thoughtful, even-handed way you presented it. I know my Supergirl didn't work for you, but I hope you'll enjoy something else I do, like Batman & The Outsiders.

[Johnny_Luck]

Yeah I think the Being a dad thing and why your taking it where you are has a lot to do with how we differ. It feels to me like your taking everything that made her cool for late teenagers/adults and try to move in a direction that makes her more parent/family and younger female friendly, which would be cool if the audience wasn't largely males my age or older who IMHO I don't think want a super cute supergirl that their little sister could idol.

again I loved some of your other stuff, I just don't think supergirl was the right book for your with your situations and such.

[Joe Acro]

t feels to me like your taking everything that made her cool for late teenagers/adults and try to move in a direction that makes her more parent/family and younger female friendly, which would be cool if the audience wasn't largely males my age or older who IMHO I don't think want a super cute supergirl that their little sister could idol.

I commend any effort to make titles more family- and youth-friendly. Care to provide some facts with your assertion that mostly twenty-something plus males are reading Supergirl? Besides, you shouldn't make opinions around what other people might want. I know there is a consensus that people didn't like that issue (as seen in the issue thread over in the Superman forum), but that hardly warrants you speaking for everyone.

[Johnny_Luck]

I didn't speak for everyone, if you actually read what you quoted it begin with "To ME it feels like.." or the later "who IMHO I don't think want a super cute supergirl that their little sister could idol."

ands its a fact most supergirl fans are 20 to 45 if you look at DC's statistics for the character.

[Linkara]

I will concede for once, Johnny, that you're right in the fact that I was very disappointed that she was so upset about having to face Superman about the President thing. While she may respect and love her cousin, I've never gotten the impression from any of her appearances that she worries about what he'll think of her. The Kents? Maybe. Superman? Not so much.

That being said, I still dislike Kelly's run and frankly I'm still loving the artwork. Tony, I'm particularly disappointed that you're only writing Supegirl for the tie-in issues. I'd love to hear how you'd go about writing her if you were the ongoing writer.

[Tony Bedard]

I honestly don't know what long-term plans I might've had. It's been a 3-issue gig to me the whole time, andd I expect Kelly Puckett will rock on the book.

That said, I'd welcome a chance to write her again. Between this and LEGION, I've grown fond of her.

Johnny Luck, your points are well taken and well stated. It seems all too rare to have a civil and intelligent disagreement on a forum. I'm honestly very grateful you've voiced your opinion here.

[sabongero]

I honestly don't know what long-term plans I might've had. It's been a 3-issue gig to me the whole time, andd I expect Kelly Puckett will rock on the book.

That said, I'd welcome a chance to write her again. Between this and LEGION, I've grown fond of her.

Johnny Luck, your points are well taken and well stated. It seems all too rare to have a civil and intelligent disagreement on a forum. I'm honestly very grateful you've voiced your opinion here.

I agree with you Tony, that Kelly Puckett will rock as the Supergirl writer. He was awesome on the Batgirl (Cassandra Cain) issues.

Thanks for the 3 issue filler Tony. One has to take into consideration that there is no definite Supergirl "vision" by the DC editorial board since issue #1 when Jeff Loeb moved to Marvel. So I guess when you took on Supergirl it was sort of a "disaster" series inherited. But a good selling one, with a loyal fanbase for the character.

[JoeMD]

The only problem I had with this issue is that I had no idea what the characters were talking about half the time because A) I'm fairly new to the DCU and B) I've not read Countdown or any of the Crisis books. So my confusion is probably much my own fault.

I love the art though, and really enjoyed the previous issue. I think it makes sense for Kara to be all angry and dark one moment and then regretful the next as there are people who blow hot and cold like that. I'm 22 as well but that kind of character reminds me of when I and my friends were young.

So, hopefully next issue will be easier to handle for those who haven't read Countdown such as myself.

[Johnny_Luck]

disagree on the art aspect, I think the texture and shape of her face makes her look way too old compared to her age, the fact her ankles are as thick as her thighs(and sorry loose boots don't give that affect) and legs don't bend half backwards/hlaf forwards.

Plus like I PM'ed tony to ask him how he could defend a certain Panel when we first see Cassie in #21 it looks like her cheeks are filled with 6 cheeseburgers or a bomb just exploded making them puff out like crazy.