Rachel Summers/Grey Appreciation

[Daithi]

And my Excalibur issues are dramatically few and far between (shame on me, I know). I think I can dig up those issues at the comics store, I'll check them out when I've time-n-money.

Excalibur is awesome. Not just for good Rachel stuff but the stories in general.

As for the no counterparts thing..
Well it was okay then I suppose but Claremont's non-explanation of answer during HoM didn't impress me. It boiled down to Rachel just stating as fact that she had no alternate selves.

Even during Excalibur, the fact that they were going crosstime (hello eXiles fans!) meant that Rachel might have been the only Rachel to go back in time.

[jarrod]

EIt boiled down to Rachel just stating as fact that she had no alternate selves.

Well she didn't just say it... it was actually shown. And while the reasoning for hasn't been laid out on panel yet, we do know why that is...

[Daithi]

Well she didn't just say it... it was actually shown. And while the reasoning for hasn't been laid out on panel yet, we do know why that is...

Given that the WHR never functioned as way of seeing other alternate selves before and that it seemed to be more Jamie Braddock construct well I'm taking what that said with a pinch of salt.

[jarrod]

Given that the WHR never functioned as way of seeing other alternate selves and that it seemed to be more Jamie Braddock construct well....

I don't think so... it was Rachel being (likely defensively) pulled into the WHR duing Wanda's woogie, she just took Betsy's hand and brought her along. Jamie later yanked them out via his connection to Betsy.

I guess it could be retconned otherwise, but there's no on panel evidence that it was contsruct of Jamie's and not the WHR. And we know that wasn't the writer's intention for sure. Plus I'd find it hard to believe that Rachel couldn't tell the difference, given she's the one person besides Betsy who's been shown to be able to see through Jamie's deceptions, plus she's a Phoenix and has been there before.

[Daithi]

I guess it could be retconned otherwise, but there's no on panel evidence that it was contsruct of Jamie's and not the WHR. And we know that wasn't the writer's intention for sure.

Hmm? I remember Claremont on X-Fan telling a poster that Rachel thought it was the WHR but Rachel's word wasn't gospel.

Plus I'd find it hard to believe that Rachel couldn't tell the difference, given she's the one person besides Betsy who's been shown to be able to see through Jamie's deceptions, plus she's a Phoenix and has been there before.

Well she was there during her Askani years so that's not a good example.

Plus perhaps Jamie wanted her to see him? Rachel couldn't see through his illusions when he popped up again and she thought Kurt was Jamie.


Anyway I think Claremont stamping "Rachel is special. Only one in existence" was more a reaction to Jean coming back than anything.

[DDM]

As for the no counterparts thing..
Well it was okay then I suppose but Claremont's non-explanation of answer during HoM didn't impress me. It boiled down to Rachel just stating as fact that she had no alternate selves.

The White hot Room reinforces the idea Rachel Summers is unique since she has not alternate other Rachel Summers.

Even during Excalibur, the fact that they were going crosstime (hello eXiles fans!) meant that Rachel might have been the only Rachel to go back in time.

Chris Claremont is saying Rachel Summers in the only Phoenix; therefore, she has not other alternate counterparts. In this sense, Rachel is unique. Since there in only one Phoenix, there's only one Rachel Summers. Chris Claremont is saying Rachel Summers is Phoenix.

Given that the WHR never functioned as way of seeing other alternate selves before and that it seemed to be more Jamie Braddock construct well I'm taking what that said with a pinch of salt.

The White Hot Room exists outside of reality; therefore, it does not function the same way. Jamie Braddock manipulates the strings that bind reality together, but since the White Hot Room exists outside of reality as we know it, Jamie has no power there.

Rachel has been linked to the White Hot Room since before her birth due to Jean's connection with being Phoenix. Chris Claremont is still saying Rachel is unique & is the one true Phoenix.

[Daithi]

The White Hot Room exists outside of reality; therefore, it does not function the same way. Jamie Braddock manipulates the strings that bind reality together, but since the White Hot Room exists outside of reality as we know it, Jamie has no power there.

Yet Jamie was able to yank both Psylocke and Rachel out from the WHR. So that wasn't the WHR and Rachel was mistaken.

Or it was the WHR yet Jamie can affect it meaning it still can't be trusted.

[jarrod]

Hmm? I remember Claremont on X-Fan telling a poster that Rachel thought it was the WHR but Rachel's word wasn't gospel.

Regardless, if we're to use writer intention, then there really is just one unique Rachel, at least until another writer claims otherwise.

Well she was there during her Askani years so that's not a good example.

All Phoenix are there, before they're born and after they die. Rachel's been in both states actually.

Plus perhaps Jamie wanted her to see him? Rachel couldn't see through his illusions when he popped up again and she thought Kurt was Jamie.

True, it didn't always work, but Rachel's connection to the Phoenix and the WHR is so innate... I just have trouble believing Jamie could somehow replicate that. Braddock Manor restored or Kurt as himself; sure, that's easy. But the WHR is a part of Rachel's being, I think it goes to another level of familiarity.

Anyway I think Claremont stamping "Rachel is special. Only one in existence" was more a reaction to Jean coming back than anything.

Originally maybe, but Claremont had Jean remanifesting every chance he got in the 1980s & 1990s. We know the reasoning for it though, in that he was patterning the Jean-Phoenix-Rachel dynamic after the holy trinity.

If anyone's got the Messiah Complex, it should probably be Ray. ;)

[Mormel]

I had to sell my excalibur series for scraps to get food a few years back. Sniff, it is sorely missed in my severely shrunk comics collection. Maybe i'll get the trade some day ..

Yeah, I saw the Classic Excalibur TPB in the store today. Issues 12-20 for 25 euros. May pick it up, but there are other trades I want, too...

It's funny, I'm selling some of my stuff this month to get money for food, but I've barely considered selling my comic books. Way my priorities are now, they'd be, like, the last things to go. :D It's nothing dire, anyway...


EDIT:

Also, I didn't mean to drag the discussion away from ClanAskani's topic, whether or not Rachel could have existed as a baby in the 616 timeline. But since it's been established that Rachel has no counterparts in any alternate timeline, does that render the point moot, or not?

[DungeonmasterJim]

Found this on Flickr while looking at photos from Dragon Con 2007




DM Jim

[Daithi]

Wow that's freaky. The facial tattoos actually look okay. They're better than Bachalo's attempts actually!

[DDM]

Found this on Flickr while looking at photos from Dragon Con 2007




DM Jim

Wow, she made Rachel's Hound leather costume out of spandex? I suppose it was cheaper, but I applaud her for the effort. She almost does look like Rachel--Hound tattoos & all!

[Cerridwen]

So Cute! :d

[Mormel]

Yeah, DM Jim, that's quite amazin'! Love you for posting it!

[kate-pryde]

That's a very cool costume!