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  1. #46
    In Joss We Trust kate-pryde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Askani's Flame View Post
    I hope Korvus is the first casualty, which causes the drunken convos with Lorna and Rachel:

    Lorna: What were you thinking with him?
    Rachel: I dunno. . . . he had a big sword?
    :p
    I was thinking the same thing. Hopefully Korvus dies between Uncanny 486 and Emperor Vulcan 1. Maybe Vulcan or one of the Imperial Guard kills him. Lorna consoles her by taking her out for drinks.

    I'm not sure I can stand any more of Rachel & Korvus making out and their silly dialogue.

  2. #47
    BANNED Dagger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDM View Post
    In Uncanny X-Men #184, she is taken in by Nicholas Damiano, a club owner & entrepreneur; she looks in the mirror hoping her hair grows out in a vain attempt to escape Selene. Of course, Selene finds Rachel Summers & kills Nick Damiano.

    Although Rachel's hair slightly grew out by the time she became Phoenix, it did remain spiked, giving her an androgynous appearance. I really think her Hound conditioning kept her hair short.
    It didn't say anything about her not being able to grow her hair out though, so I still don't understand where you came up with it couldn't grow out. I think it was a personal style choice, rather than hound conditioning. I mean, why would the back grow out, but not the front, sides and top? Makes no sense. It's not like she's Rahne or anything.

  3. #48
    Veteran Member DDM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagger View Post
    It didn't say anything about her not being able to grow her hair out though, so I still don't understand where you came up with it couldn't grow out. I think it was a personal style choice, rather than hound conditioning. I mean, why would the back grow out, but not the front, sides and top? Makes no sense. It's not like she's Rahne or anything.
    Ahab explains the Hound process better in Uncanny X-Men Annual #14; the Hound brainwashing effects the very genetic make-up of the victim. In other words, they become slaves--body & soul. Although Rachel was freed from her Hound conditioning, the effects remained as shown by her short spiked hair & her Hound tattoos as Phoenix. It also explains why Rachel is so easily subverted by others such as Mojo & Spiral & the Haukka telepath.

  4. #49
    In Joss We Trust kate-pryde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDM View Post
    Ahab explains the Hound process better in Uncanny X-Men Annual #14; the Hound brainwashing effects the very genetic make-up of the victim. In other words, they become slaves--body & soul. Although Rachel was freed from her Hound conditioning, the effects remained as shown by her short spiked hair & her Hound tattoos as Phoenix. It also explains why Rachel is so easily subverted by others such as Mojo & Spiral & the Haukka telepath.
    But why would only the front part of Rachel's hair not grow?

    Also, any genetic changes from the Hound process would have been fixed after Rachel was taken by the Phoenix force to be healed in space in Excalibur 52. (I suppose her hair did get longer when she returned).

    It's more likely that Rachel kept her hair cut like it was when she was a Hound for the same reason that she kept wearing her Hound Costume in Excalibur - to remind her where she had been and what she need to make amends for. And because it became part of her character and looked cool back then.

  5. #50
    Veteran Member DDM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kate-pryde View Post
    But why would only the front part of Rachel's hair not grow?
    Again, it goes back to the Hound Program.

    Also, any genetic changes from the Hound process would have been fixed after Rachel was taken by the Phoenix force to be healed in space in Excalibur 52. (I suppose her hair did get longer when she returned).
    The Phoenix healed Rachel after her fight with Necrom, but it could not fundamentally change her into being someone she is not.

    For instance, in Uncanny X-Men Annual #14, Rachel freaks out when she discovered her past remains; therefore, she still possesses the Hound tattoos & her Hound costume. Phoenix flies back to England.

    It's more likely that Rachel kept her hair cut like it was when she was a Hound for the same reason that she kept wearing her Hound Costume in Excalibur - to remind her where she had been and what she need to make amends for. And because it became part of her character and looked cool back then.
    I don't think so. Her mullet grew because this is the only part of her hair that grew. Her hair basically stayed with the buzz cut.

  6. #51
    Where the sun don't shine Pro's Avatar
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    I don't think so. Her mullet grew because this is the only part of her hair that grew. Her hair basically stayed with the buzz cut.
    You're saying Ahab went out of his way to make sure his hounds could grow no hairstyle other than mullets ... ?

  7. #52
    In Joss We Trust kate-pryde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDM View Post
    The Phoenix healed Rachel after her fight with Necrom, but it could not fundamentally change her into being someone she is not.
    The psychological scars remained. But physically, she was healed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pro View Post
    You're saying Ahab went out of his way to make sure his hounds could grow no hairstyle other than mullets ... ?
    LOL!

    So that's how Ahab could track them! Any Hounds that escaped would be easily identifiable by their mullets!

  8. #53
    To burn and to rise Mormel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pro View Post
    Rachel and Nightcrawler, now that i would like to see happen ..
    Like Askani's Flame, I am not a fan of this pair-up, but I am curious to know why you think this would be an interesting romance, Pro.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daithi View Post
    It's such a constructed thing. Wow both our families have been killed. We've both being agents of the government/empire that killed our families. We're both connected to a mystical force. Kiss me, no...yes.

    Gah!
    The thing is, when the Rachel/Korvus 'mind-meld' first happened, it was really a nice twist of Brubaker. He turned a character who was seemingly going to be another big villain in the arc, into an ally for the X-Men. It also laid the foundation for a relationship between to kindred spirits. It could have been a cool friendship, I felt.

    But then came the romance, and it all degenerated into a (and pardon my language) cheesy, hollow barf-fest.

    Quote Originally Posted by kate-pryde View Post
    I was thinking the same thing. Hopefully Korvus dies between Uncanny 486 and Emperor Vulcan 1. Maybe Vulcan or one of the Imperial Guard kills him. Lorna consoles her by taking her out for drinks.
    No such luck. Korvus appears on the cover of Emperor Vulcan 1. And Rachel should stay sober. She needs to, so she can fight the Imperial Guard. But then again, she could probably defeat them drunk.

    Quote Originally Posted by kate-pryde View Post
    I'm not sure I can stand any more of Rachel & Korvus making out and their silly dialogue.
    I'd put up with it. Anything so I can keep reading about Rachel on a regular basis. And besides, Brubaker is no longer dialoguing her, Yost is. I feel that dialogue isn't Bru's strongest suit, but it isn't George Lucas' strongest suit either, honestly.



    EDIT: What a horrible thing to say. I swallow my words. Sure Brubaker can write good dialogue. It's just SOMETIMES unimpressive.
    Last edited by Mormel; 08-17-2007 at 06:28 AM.

  9. #54
    salt in my porridge jarrod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flâneur View Post
    I've got Supernovas and while I don't doubt Carey, I would rather any interaction Nate and Rachel have be very solid so that succeeding writers can't pretend it didn't happen. As it stands, even what has been established with the Askani, Weinberg run, select issues of 80s UXM and Excal and that issue in C&D it still seems to get side lined. If they were in the same team for a while and the relationship wasn't focused on ... well I dread how other writers might interpret that.
    Granted, but that's why I think Carey would expound on the relationship. Nate/Ray interaction was one of the things he specified wanting to see awhile back too... and while I'd agree there'd be more of a place for it in say, C+D, if anything I'd say plot points in those sorts of books are more likely to be glossed over versus something that happens in a core title.


    Quote Originally Posted by Flâneur View Post
    Regarding Kitty/Rachel; there is already a foundation for tension there, she's felt out-classed physically by Rachel for yonks and Emma is certainly more sexual than she'd ever be so there's alot of room there to have Kitty's insecurities explored.
    That too, though Kitty's sort of grown up (and the jubblies out) herself at this point... I'm not really sure that dynamic would work now.


    Quote Originally Posted by Flâneur View Post
    We'll kidnap him for six months and feed him nothing but Taco Bell, if the McDonalds diet was any indications we should have a very pliant EiC on our hands afterward.
    lolz... I dunno how long the Q could last off his usual diet of ritually sacrificed babies and virgins. Then again, I dunno how long I'd last either. :/


    Quote Originally Posted by Flâneur View Post
    Haha, cum ninja.:p

    And why does this make me think of a Nine Inch Nails song:p

    *asphyxiates with poise and intense arousal*
    *squirt* *squirt*



    *dribble*

  10. #55
    salt in my porridge jarrod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kate-pryde View Post
    I think it would be difficult to have two powerful, strong-willed telepaths like Emma & Rachel on the same team. Either Rachel becomes Emma Jr and starts becoming more like her, or there is more bickering between the two.
    Morrison handled three just fine honestly... I think Emma and Rachel are different enough in persona, visual and ability to definitely work on the same team. If anyone could do it, it'd be Ellis.


    Quote Originally Posted by kate-pryde View Post
    Since Emma knows exactly how to get under Rachel's skin and Rachel tends to let Emma get to her, most writers are going to keep going the cat fight route with Rachel & Emma. Especially when it comes to Rachel's relationship with Scott, which it's difficult for Emma not to be jealous of since it's going to remind her of Jean.
    Well, Claremont at least started to try and steer us past that. I think there'd be lots of room for both a synergistic (teacher/student) or antagonistic (establishment/upstart) relationship that diden't hinge on Whedonian bratty infighting.


    Quote Originally Posted by kate-pryde View Post
    I would like to see Rachel start to become more of a leader. She was the one who brought Excalibur together. She certainly showed she was very capable leader during her time with the Askani, and Scott would be one who would want to bring that out of her. He knows what her potential is, but also understands that Rachel might need a little prodding to bring that potential out.
    Actually, I think I could see Emma working better in that position honestly. She's not stupid, she may resent Rachel on some level but she understands what's best for the team, the dream and for Scott too. And she loves having herself an apprentice to mold, plus anything that'll piss of Jeanix (floating around out there somehwere) is a bonus. Scott himeslf always seemed so aloof and clueless when it comes to Rachel, I'm not sure he'd recognize much that didn't deal directly with his own relationship to her.


    Quote Originally Posted by kate-pryde View Post
    It all depends on what happens with after Messiah Complex. Maybe Rachel returns and gets upset about whatever happened and that spurs her on to try to make changes, maybe butting heads with Scott & Emma.
    If Carey does do a "counter X-Men" book, I think that'd likely be the best spot for Ray and Nate honestly.

  11. #56
    Veteran Member Flâneur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jarrod View Post
    Granted, but that's why I think Carey would expound on the relationship. Nate/Ray interaction was one of the things he specified wanting to see awhile back too... and while I'd agree there'd be more of a place for it in say, C+D, if anything I'd say plot points in those sorts of books are more likely to be glossed over versus something that happens in a core title.
    Well if he's an open supporter of the familial interactivity then I'm won over.
    Quote Originally Posted by jarrod
    That too, though Kitty's sort of grown up (and the jubblies out) herself at this point... I'm not really sure that dynamic would work now.
    While Kitty has indeed grown up, there would still be a core rivalry there because of such things, which Rachel is simply oblivious to. It would only be heightened I think if Emma and Rachel got at all competitive since it would excise Kitty from that circle and promote alot of the old insecurities. It's also good to remember that Excal Kitty, who felt this way, wasn't all that long ago in Marvel time.

    Quote Originally Posted by jarrod
    *squirt* *squirt*



    *dribble*
    *licks*
    "All things are precipitated by the nature of existence. Nothing, therefore, is unnatural be it bee-hive or termite mound or all our shining, poisoned cities." - Promethea #31

  12. #57
    In Joss We Trust kate-pryde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schuimend Mormel View Post
    The thing is, when the Rachel/Korvus 'mind-meld' first happened, it was really a nice twist of Brubaker. He turned a character who was seemingly going to be another big villain in the arc, into an ally for the X-Men. It also laid the foundation for a relationship between to kindred spirits. It could have been a cool friendship, I felt.

    But then came the romance, and it all degenerated into a (and pardon my language) cheesy, hollow barf-fest.
    I didn't mind Korvus at first. It was when he and Rachel started their crazy romance that the whole Rise & Fall of the Shi'ar arc completely jumped the shark. It was such a major disappointment that after End of Greys, that Rachel's role in the arc was limited to a cliché and practically sexist romance with an anime reject.

    Maybe Yost can fix it, since writing that type of dialogue doesn't seem to be Brubaker's thing, but the damage is already done. The only way I'm going to like Korvus is now is if he dies a very painful death.

  13. #58
    To burn and to rise Mormel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kate-pryde View Post
    I didn't mind Korvus at first. It was when he and Rachel started their crazy romance that the whole Rise & Fall of the Shi'ar arc completely jumped the shark. It was such a major disappointment that after End of Greys, that Rachel's role in the arc was limited to a cliché and practically sexist romance with an anime reject.

    Maybe Yost can fix it, since writing that type of dialogue doesn't seem to be Brubaker's thing, but the damage is already done. The only way I'm going to like Korvus is now is if he dies a very painful death.
    Yost was the one who wrote a little Rachel/Havok story in Unlimited before, right? I heard good things about it, and am looking forward to the Starjammers mini-series with all the more curiosity.

    I hope that when... WHEN they kill Korvus it won't affect Rachel too much. I mean, we ARE supposed to believe she's (ugh) close to the guy now. I hope they break up and later he gets all remorseful and dies in a self-sacrifice, or better yet, that Korvus turns out to be a traitor, and Rachel has to kill him.

  14. #59
    Senior Member Daithi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schuimend Mormel View Post
    I hope that when... WHEN they kill Korvus it won't affect Rachel too much. I mean, we ARE supposed to believe she's (ugh) close to the guy now. I hope they break up and later he gets all remorseful and dies in a self-sacrifice, or better yet, that Korvus turns out to be a traitor, and Rachel has to kill him.
    Yeah I hope he turns out to be a traitor or a sleeper agent. Basically "infecting" Rachel with the Phoenix blade.

    It would explain why Korvus was sent after Rachel in the first place. Why send a man with a Phoenix blade to a girl who has close ties to the Phoenix.

    I also keep forgetting that Lilandra is on the team. Maybe Rachel can actually ask her about the deaths of family.
    Last edited by Daithi; 08-17-2007 at 12:09 PM.

  15. #60
    In Joss We Trust kate-pryde's Avatar
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    Yes, Yost wrote Unlimited #11 with Alex & Rachel, so that's cause for a lot of optimism. I'd far prefer more Alex and Rachel or Alex and Lorna interaction than anything with Rachel and Korvus.

    My speculation months ago was that there had to be more to Korvus and his deal with K'Tor for his freedom, since it seemed way to simple. Why would K'Tor think the Blade of the Phoenix could kill Rachel? I assumed there had to be more to it and the plan. Perhaps the Phoenix fragment was contaminated and would harm Rachel in some way and Korvus was mind-controlling Rachel.

    Maybe that will happen in Emperor Vulcan, but it would make Rachel look rather foolish if she was deceived by Korvus and the Phoenix fragment.

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