Tracking the 52 Earths *SPOILERS*

**Duy** · 09-05-2007, 03:37 AM

Originally Posted by Buried Alien

With any luck, the new Earth-1 will be a near clone of the old Pre-COIE Earth-One: a classic Silver/Bronze Age configuration mainstream DC Earth.

But I hope Earth-52 (New Earth) sticks around too.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Well, as Kara Zor-El is only now recently surfaced in New Earth, then most likely the new Earth-1 was retrofitted so that its Supergirl still died in the Crisis. But what about their Barry?

**Buried Alien** · 09-05-2007, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by hangmanjury

Well, as Kara Zor-El is only now recently surfaced in New Earth, then most likely the new Earth-1 was retrofitted so that its Supergirl still died in the Crisis. But what about their Barry?

Perhaps the Barry Allen we saw inside the Speed Force with that other Jay Garrick, Bart Allen, and Wally West is the Earth-One Barry. Ideally, I suppose, on New Earth (Earth-52), Barry's sacrifice stands and Wally continues to be the Flash, satisfying fans of that scenario. On Earth-1, however, Barry defies death in the Crisis and returns as the Flash, satisfying those who want to see Barry alive and fighting the good fight as the Flash again.

Other queries arise if the new Earth-1 essentially continues where the old Earth-One left off: should Dick Grayson be Nightwing, or Robin? If Dick is Nightwing, is Jason Todd the new Robin...a Jason Todd that *never* dies at the hands of the Joker? What of Barbara Gordon? On Earth-1, is she never crippled and continues her Batgirl career to the present day?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

**Duy** · 09-05-2007, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by Buried Alien

Perhaps the Barry Allen we saw inside the Speed Force with that other Jay Garrick, Bart Allen, and Wally West is the Earth-One Barry. Ideally, I suppose, on New Earth (Earth-52), Barry's sacrifice stands and Wally continues to be the Flash, satisfying fans of that scenario. On Earth-1, however, Barry defies death in the Crisis and returns as the Flash, satisfying those who want to see Barry alive and fighting the good fight as the Flash again.

Other queries arise if the new Earth-1 essentially continues where the old Earth-One left off: should Dick Grayson be Nightwing, or Robin? If Dick is Nightwing, is Jason Todd the new Robin...a Jason Todd that *never* dies at the hands of the Joker? What of Barbara Gordon? On Earth-1, is she never crippled and continues her Batgirl career to the present day?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I personally think it should be where Earth-1 left off, since I'd really rather see Dick as old school Nightwing than leggy Robin. But really, I can find no other reason it has to be there and can't go back a few years more.

**captain_unimpressive** · 09-05-2007, 05:23 PM

Wouldn't it be interesting if the worlds weren't just alternate continuities where characters didn't change as much or changed in different ways, but worlds actually displaced in time--the Golden Age Earth is actually in the Golden Age, the Silver Age Earth is in the Silver Age, et cetera. This would mean that in the DC Multiverse, all the big landmarks would be happening in groups, and would even have impacts on the other universes. So, to the 'verse-hoppers of the DCU Supergirl dies, Mister Mind begins his first defarious scheme, and a certain Kryptonian is discovering that he can fly, all at once.

**joint venture** · 09-06-2007, 07:34 AM

Originally Posted by captain_unimpressive

Wouldn't it be interesting if the worlds weren't just alternate continuities where characters didn't change as much or changed in different ways, but worlds actually displaced in time--the Golden Age Earth is actually in the Golden Age, the Silver Age Earth is in the Silver Age, et cetera. This would mean that in the DC Multiverse, all the big landmarks would be happening in groups, and would even have impacts on the other universes. So, to the 'verse-hoppers of the DCU Supergirl dies, Mister Mind begins his first defarious scheme, and a certain Kryptonian is discovering that he can fly, all at once.

And then, perhaps in some really intelligent argument and script; collide them all into one coherent and "swiss watch precission" working universe.

Final Crisis.

**SNW21** · 09-06-2007, 08:29 AM

In Countdown#43, Monarch tells Forerunner that the Monitors sent someone to exterminate all life on Earth-34, which is the world the Forerunners are from. In Countdown to Adventure#1, Forerunner mentions in her purple "thought/narration box" which is used throughout most of the backup story, the following:

"The Monitor stated that eons ago our planet was called earth...the forty-eighth such incarnation in the multiverse. This earth waged many brutal wars. The humans fought among themselves and eventually their neighboring planets. It was the destruction of life on my earth that brought about the planetary combat treaty."

So in Countdown#43, Earth-34 is the Forerunners home world and now in Countdown to Adventure#1 their home world is Earth-48? Is this a continuity error? Am I missing something here?

**4thHorseman** · 09-06-2007, 08:36 AM

I think it may have just been a mistake

**Interro** · 09-06-2007, 09:15 AM

New Earths, from DC Nation: Earth-18 (Justice Riders), Earth-21 (New Frontier), and Earth-34 (Wonder Woman: Amazonia).

**Buried Alien** · 09-06-2007, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by hangmanjury

I personally think it should be where Earth-1 left off, since I'd really rather see Dick as old school Nightwing than leggy Robin. But really, I can find no other reason it has to be there and can't go back a few years more.

Looking back historically, I have long believed that Dick Grayson's transition from Robin to Nightwing was the first evolutionary step away from the classic Silver/Bronze Age configuration of the DCU to the Modern Age DCU that we recognize today. Up until Dick became Nightwing, the DCU had been fairly static for years. Very few permanent, major changes occurred to the DCU characters and their circumstances. For the most part, things were predictable and unchanging, year in, decade out.

Dick's becoming Nightwing and Jason Todd's becoming Robin triggered the tidal wave of change. Within a year, CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS would kill the Multiverse, the Barry Allen Flash, the classic Supergirl, and Silver/Bronze Age DC continuity and history. The new Modern Age DCU would be built, one brick at a time, over the next twenty years.

If a new Earth-1 emerges, it should reflect the classic, unchanged Silver/Bronze Age DCU...meaning Dick Grayson as Robin, Barry Allen as Flash, the classic Supergirl, Barbara Gordon as Batgirl, etc. Meanwhile, on New Earth, the changes of the past quarter century can remain and continue.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

**captain_unimpressive** · 09-06-2007, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by joint venture

And then, perhaps in some really intelligent argument and script; collide them all into one coherent and "swiss watch precission" working universe.

Final Crisis.

Well, you had me up to "one universe".
Didn't we already have just one universe a few years ago?
Remember how poorly that worked out?

**Duy** · 09-06-2007, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by Buried Alien

Looking back historically, I have long believed that Dick Grayson's transition from Robin to Nightwing was the first evolutionary step away from the classic Silver/Bronze Age configuration of the DCU to the Modern Age DCU that we recognize today. Up until Dick became Nightwing, the DCU had been fairly static for years. Very few permanent, major changes occurred to the DCU characters and their circumstances. For the most part, things were predictable and unchanging, year in, decade out.

Dick's becoming Nightwing and Jason Todd's becoming Robin triggered the tidal wave of change. Within a year, CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS would kill the Multiverse, the Barry Allen Flash, the classic Supergirl, and Silver/Bronze Age DC continuity and history. The new Modern Age DCU would be built, one brick at a time, over the next twenty years.

If a new Earth-1 emerges, it should reflect the classic, unchanged Silver/Bronze Age DCU...meaning Dick Grayson as Robin, Barry Allen as Flash, the classic Supergirl, Barbara Gordon as Batgirl, etc. Meanwhile, on New Earth, the changes of the past quarter century can remain and continue.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

On principle, I tend to agree with you. On principle.

Except it's just that leggy Robin is so lame!

**Duy** · 09-06-2007, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by Interro

New Earths, from DC Nation: Earth-18 (Justice Riders), Earth-21 (New Frontier), and Earth-34 (Wonder Woman: Amazonia).

Okay, they're making an Earth out of Kingdom Come, so I can forgive them for making an Earth out of New Frontier, even though I don't want anyone but Darwyn touching New Frontier. But is an Amazonia world really necessary? How much mileage can they really get out of that?

**Interro** · 09-06-2007, 05:50 PM

Keep in mind that the last multiverse had only ten or so notable Earths. I wouldn't expect every Earth to be revisited often.

**Duy** · 09-06-2007, 06:01 PM

Yeah, but the more earths they can get mileage out of, the better, right? Since now there's a clear limit on the number of earths, shouldn't they attempt to make every earth utilitarian and usable? So do we really need an Amazonia earth, or can we just have that consolidated into the Gotham by Gaslight world since they don't really contradict each other? Did the Forerunners really need their own universe? Why couldn't they have just been an alien race?

**Buried Alien** · 09-06-2007, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by Interro

Keep in mind that the last multiverse had only ten or so notable Earths.

Yeah, which is why when people raised concerns that the new Multiverse is too limited with only 52 universes, I was compelled to remind them that despite all the talk of "infinite Earths" in the old Multiverse, we really only saw around a dozen or so of those parallel universes during the Silver/Bronze Ages.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)