are there any ultimates that are better than 616?

**yourverysilly** · 07-05-2007, 03:42 AM

simple enough question. I haven't picked up any ultimates yet, but what got me thinking is that to my knowledge there was no crisis on infinite earths for marvel. SO does that mean those wacky stories set in WW2 are still in continuity? I guess not, but why haven't they done an official modern rehash of everything? And I like this idea of starting again, despite it being a bit commercial, rebooting the marvels is a very attractive prospect to me.

**rwsmith** · 07-05-2007, 07:39 AM

Pretty much all of the Ultimates are better than their 616 Avengers counterparts IMO. Cap is much more of a hardass, Thor is much less cheesy and Stark is much more the fun, billionaire playboy. Oh, and Ultimate Fury is much cooler than 616 Fury. I mean, c'mon, he's Samual L. Jackson in the Ulti-verse for cyin' out loud!

The X-men are all pretty much the same. Ultimate Wolverine was much more of a wild card when he first debuted (even going so far as trying to kill Cyclops so that he could have Jean Grey), but now they've pretty much just made him a taller version of the 616 character. Oh, and Colossus is gay, but otherwise he's the same boring character IMO.

Ultimate Spider-man is neither better nor worse than his 616 counterpart. Just younger and different. Same with the FF, at least IMO.

**Deadpooligan** · 07-05-2007, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by rwsmith

Pretty much all of the Ultimates are better than their 616 Avengers counterparts IMO. Cap is much more of a hardass, Thor is much less cheesy and Stark is much more the fun, billionaire playboy. Oh, and Ultimate Fury is much cooler than 616 Fury. I mean, c'mon, he's Samual L. Jackson in the Ulti-verse for cyin' out loud!

I'll give you Cap and Fury, but Thor and Iron Man are just NO.

Thor's a freakin' hippie. C'mon, he's not even epic. There's no way he holds a candle to 616 Thor. And Loki? He doesn't even look memorable.

And "color-me-fun" Iron Man? C'mon, that armor looks so lame. You'd think they could have come up with something much sleeker looking and streamlined.

Though I do think the brain tumor thing is interesting.

**brundlefly** · 07-05-2007, 10:56 AM

Frankly, no. Most are essentially pale shades of the characters that they were xeroxed from to begin with. And a large number of them made laughably more "cool" in an attempt to make them "better" (i.e. Ult. Logan is tall and has a soul patch, Ult. Fury is a Samuel L. Jackson clone, Ult. Hawkeye is more like Bullseye than 616 Hawkeye, Ult. Hulk eats people, etc.), like they were reimagined by a bunch of 13-year-olds boys on a sugar high. "Oh, dude, instead of a farmer, Ultimate Colossus should be in the Russian Mafia! So kewl! *high five*

The only character I think was actually improved upon is Thor, whose Ultimate counterpart ended up being more of a sympathetic and identifiable character than his 616 predecessor (and yet is still a Norse God and all that). But then The Ultimates, outside of Fury/Jackson and Hawkeye/Bullseye, did a much better job of "reimagining" their cast as fully developed and distinctive characters (like Ultimate Cap, Stark, and Pym) than any of the other Ultimate books, in my opinion.

**DaeJi** · 07-05-2007, 12:42 PM

It depends on what you mean be better. Do you mean who's more skilled/powerful, or who's more fun to read? If it's more powerful... I couldn't say, I would need to see a fight. Even then I think most if not all of the 616 versions would win. If it's who's better to read... the only Ultimate character I enjoy reading more than their 616 counterpart is Ironman. Otherwise I enjoy reading them every much as I enjoy the 616 universe. Except Thor; turning a god of thunder and war into a hippie is lame.

**Arrjay** · 07-05-2007, 12:49 PM

I enjoy the Ultimate line more than the 616 line.

As to whether or not that essentially makes it an overall better line I can't say.

I do enjoy the 616 books a lot too but the defining factor when considering this is the fact that the Ultimate comics have so little back stroy. It feels fresh for me because it's such a young universe.

**Nick MB** · 07-05-2007, 12:55 PM

I think the Ultimate Spider-Man comic has been of a higher quality than more or less any of the MU ones for more or less its entire run.

Ultimates has been a very good comic, but seems so changed from Avengers that I'm not sure it's fair to compare them.

Ultimate X-Men and FF have been a bit more average, and to be honest I'd almost rather have the regular ones.

**Omega Alpha** · 07-05-2007, 07:57 PM

Ultimate Cap. America, Thor, Jean Grey, Hawkeye and Iron Man are superior to their 616 counterparts, IMO. And Ult. Thor specially is one of the greatest characters in both universes.

**MaxofSteel** · 07-05-2007, 08:49 PM

I like the fact that Ultimate Spider-man is younger (along with the FF) It creates much more story opportunities to work with than their older (616) selves.

Also I think Ultimate Cap and IM are more interesting personality-wise.

**Violently Apathetic** · 07-05-2007, 09:29 PM

I prefer Ultimate Thor, no question. I love his anti-authority tirades and long, luxurious hippie hair. On 616 Thor the hair just makes him look daft, but Ultimate Thor? Mmm.

As for the rest? Eh...well, I think Ultimate Spider-Man is in a better spot right now than his 616 counterpart, but that's my own irrational bias.

**Mister Mets** · 07-06-2007, 06:40 AM

Marvel hasn't done a Crisis of Infinite Earths/ Infinite Crisis type rehash, because the current management believes there hasn't been a need for it yet, and because there would be problems with this process.

As for Ultimate characters I think were better than their 616 counterparts.
Captain America- Love the Ultimate one's arrogance/ edge.
Weapon X- The Ultimate Weapon X was much more dangerous to mutants/ appropriate to the theme of the X-Men than its 616 counterparts.
Proteus- I enjoyed 'The Hunt for Mutant X' more than the Ultimate Proteus story, but him being Professor X's son/ lacking the weakness to metal made him more dangerous.

The thing with Ultimate Thor is that it works well when he's one of the Ultimates, but I don't think he could support as many good solo stories as Marvel's Mighty Thor has done.

**rwsmith** · 07-06-2007, 07:34 AM

I'd also go so far as to say that this isn't really a fair question at this point, seeing as how a lot of the 616 characters seem to be moving towards their Ultimate counterparts and vice versa.

I mean, it looks like 616 Thor is poised to be an anti-establishment figure upon his return and will be clashing with Iron Man soon. If the Winter Soldier becomes the next Captain America (as many people seem to believe) then we'll have a Cap who is not above picking up a gun and shooting someone (i.e., more of a traditional soldier than a super hero). 616 Xavier has recently been revealed to be every bit as shady as his Ultimate counterpart, and 616 Wolverine has been moved back towards the unpredictable wild card that he once was in both universes in stories like 'Enemy of the State' and what's going on in Wolverine: Origins. Even Spider-man is rumored to be returning to single status after 'One More Day.' Oh, and the Avengers (at least most of them) are now employed by the government in the 616 and the Ultimates are going private.

It's almost like the two Universes have flip-flopped to a certain degree, or at least had the lines between them blurred a bit. So it's really hard to say at this point which versions of characters are "better" since a lot of them have become so similar.

The only ones that I can truly and unequivocally say are "better" right now are Fury and Cap. But even that might change once 616 Fury returns and if Bucky becomes the new 616 Cap.

**Omega Alpha** · 07-06-2007, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by rwsmith

I'd also go so far as to say that this isn't really a fair question at this point, seeing as how a lot of the 616 characters seem to be moving towards their Ultimate counterparts and vice versa.

I mean, it looks like 616 Thor is poised to be an anti-establishment figure upon his return and will be clashing with Iron Man soon. If the Winter Soldier becomes the next Captain America (as many people seem to believe) then we'll have a Cap who is not above picking up a gun and shooting someone (i.e., more of a traditional soldier than a super hero). 616 Xavier has recently been revealed to be every bit as shady as his Ultimate counterpart, and 616 Wolverine has been moved back towards the unpredictable wild card that he once was in both universes in stories like 'Enemy of the State' and what's going on in Wolverine: Origins. Even Spider-man is rumored to be returning to single status after 'One More Day.' Oh, and the Avengers (at least most of them) are now employed by the government in the 616 and the Ultimates are going private.

It's almost like the two Universes have flip-flopped to a certain degree, or at least had the lines between them blurred a bit. So it's really hard to say at this point which versions of characters are "better" since a lot of them have become so similar.

The only ones that I can truly and unequivocally say are "better" right now are Fury and Cap. But even that might change once 616 Fury returns and if Bucky becomes the new 616 Cap.

I agree with your point, and i've said more or less the same thing a few times.

But i still believe Ultimate Iron Man is better. And that of course, only because he's still a drunk!:)