What is DC doing wrong? How can it be fixed?

[NMoline]

http://www.comicbookresources.com/ne...m.cgi?id=10981

The May 2007 Sales are out and Marvel has a 50-33% Market Share over DC. How is DC 17 points behind Marvel what are they doing wrong? Is it the Iconic characters versus the fallable characters of Marvel? Could it be that the stories just aren't as interesting? I for one am loving the DCU right now. Can anyone explain to me how DC has fallen so far behind?

[Kid Kamikaze10]

http://www.comicbookresources.com/ne...m.cgi?id=10981

The May 2007 Sales are out and Marvel has a 50-33% Market Share over DC. How is DC 17 points behind Marvel what are they doing wrong? Is it the Iconic characters versus the fallable characters of Marvel? Could it be that the stories just aren't as interesting? I for one am loving the DCU right now. Can anyone explain to me how DC has fallen so far behind?

To this day, I've never understood this.

[Radical]

To this day, I've never understood this.

Me neither. Lately, Marvel's characters have seemed a little too falliable. :rolleyes: :(

[Hulkamaniac]

What I personally think is the problem with DC vs Marvel is that Marvel came up with a really good idea for an "all universe effecting" story lines like CW and Annihilation. On the other hand DC is again rehashing an old concept, "multiverse gone to hell". DC can do this just so many times and for so long, they are simply dragging it out and not using "new" enough concepts (although I do like alot of the stories in general).
thats my take.

[hYPE]

What I personally think is the problem with DC vs Marvel is that Marvel came up with a really good idea for an "all universe effecting" story lines like CW and Annihilation. On the other hand DC is again rehashing an old concept, "multiverse gone to hell". DC can do this just so many times and for so long, they are simply dragging it out and not using "new" enough concepts (although I do like alot of the stories in general).
thats my take.

That is so very true! The only real good book that I'm enjoying right now with DC is Batman RIP. Final Crisis isn't really doing it for me, love Secret Invasion, awesome story.

[Jack-o-Lantern]

http://www.comicbookresources.com/ne...m.cgi?id=10981

The May 2007 Sales are out and Marvel has a 50-33% Market Share over DC. How is DC 17 points behind Marvel what are they doing wrong? Is it the Iconic characters versus the fallable characters of Marvel? Could it be that the stories just aren't as interesting? I for one am loving the DCU right now. Can anyone explain to me how DC has fallen so far behind?

This is just my opinion, but DC characters are just to boring and predictable. I am 32 years old and have been reading comics forever. I also notice that alot of the younger generation are Marvel Comics crazy. They love Spiderman and everything about him. Maybe it's becuase Marvel is the king of the movie theater. May be the stories and characters are ones everyone can relate to.

[Armless Penguin]

I don't know how, but I bet it's Judd Winnick's fault, > : - (

Kidding.

My argument would actually be that, right now, Marvel seems far more accessible to the average reader than DC does. DC is burderned by it's own self-induced continuity right now, especially with something like Infinite Crisis or 52 (something the average person would pick up and go, "Who's that?"), while Marvel is meerly paving out events with characters everyone already knows and then marketing them to hell. While the quality of their crossovers may vary, they've learned how to capture the interest of the public (especially with something like the death of Captain America), and they're profiting from it.

[Omega Alpha]

My argument would actually be that, right now, Marvel seems far more accessible to the average reader than DC does. DC is burderned by it's own self-induced continuity right now, especially with something like Infinite Crisis or 52 (something the average person would pick up and go, "Who's that?"), while Marvel is meerly paving out events with characters everyone already knows and then marketing them to hell. While the quality of their crossovers may vary, they've learned how to capture the interest of the public (especially with something like the death of Captain America), and they're profiting from it.

That is what i think. I tried to get into the main DCU, but i couldn't. The excessive use of continuity as well as the lack of explanation of what's happening (why can't DC books have a recap page before every issue?) and too much crossovers with other books (not that Marvel doesn't have crossovers, but it's rare the need of buying two different books to read a story). The JLA/JSA crossover with the Legion of Superheroes thing is an example of everything that is wrong with DC, IMO, and made me drop JSA (i already had dropped JLA).

Also, i think that a weak point of the DCU are the legacy characters. I know lots of people like them, but if you go at Marvel, you know Peter Parker is Spider-Man, Tony Stark is Iron Man, Matt Murdock etc, and it never changes (or when it did, it got a terrible reaction). And in fact, in a good part of the time (if not in the majority of it) their private lives are much more interesting than the superheroics. But in DC, almost every major character save for Superman, Batman and Martian Manhunter is the third or four version of the character, and you can't tell which is which, and can't be sure if they are going to kill your favorite to have another character take his costume.

And, like it has been said, Marvel's marketing is much better.

See, and I get exactly the same reaction from people at my store. They pick up New Avengers and Mighty Avengers and ask who the flying hell Ronin is and why it matters who's in his suit, or why Ultron suddenly has boobs and why everyone thinks exactly what they're about to say right before they say it. Or who the kid trying to steal Captain America's shield is, or what Extremis is and why it matters that Stark's head of SHIELD, or how come Spider-Man has an enemy made completely out of spiders, or why Uncle Ben's running around, and why Aunt May and Mary Jane are living in a hotel getting shot at.

Marvel isn't any less confusing than DC, it's just more popular because it's seen and heard from a lot more than DC.

The difference is that, if you want to know what, let's say, Extremis is, you can either find an easy explanation on the issue itself (whether someone saying it or with you seeing it in use) or read a few back issues. Even if you don't read the previous issues, all you have to know about Winter Soldier is that he was close to Cap. America and doesn't want anyone else to take up his mantle (which is all explained on the story itself). The reason why Ultron looks like Wasp, while works better with continuity, was explained in the arc itself, and so on. In the DCU, you sometimes have to read Silver Age comics and know what is in continuity now after the 900th Crisis.

I think that also over at Marvel they don't do something lazy and cheesey like "Superboy punches altering reality".

Actually, Joe Q is about to pull it off with the Spider-Man's marriage. Although Loki doing a spell is slightly better than a retcon punch.

[zhivago]

That is what i think. I tried to get into the main DCU, but i couldn't. The excessive use of continuity as well as the lack of explanation of what's happening (why can't DC books have a recap page before every issue?) and too much crossovers with other books (not that Marvel doesn't have crossovers, but it's rare the need of buying two different books to read a story). The JLA/JSA crossover with the Legion of Superheroes thing is an example of everything that is wrong with DC, IMO, and made me drop JSA (i already had dropped JLA).

Also, i think that a weak point of the DCU are the legacy characters. I know lots of people like them, but if you go at Marvel, you know Peter Parker is Spider-Man, Tony Stark is Iron Man, Matt Murdock etc, and it never changes (or when it did, it got a terrible reaction). And in fact, in a good part of the time (if not in the majority of it) their private lives are much more interesting than the superheroics. But in DC, almost every major character save for Superman, Batman and Martian Manhunter is the third or four version of the character, and you can't tell which is which, and can't be sure if they are going to kill your favorite to have another character take his costume.

The terms such as Legion of Super-Heroes + continuity can give headaches event to the greatest minds. If Legion's history and retcons don't confuse you I don't know what will :D

Legacy characters? If we had no legacy characters how could we participate in the never ending Hal vs. John vs. Guy vs. Kyle Green Lantern battle? Or have two Green Arrows running around? Or who is the best Robin debate?

I still like DC more since their stories, at least to me, have more heart and soul (Countdown not included) than 90% of Marvel comics

[pariah-1972]

I just read A countdown book cause i was trying to find the continuation of the "new gods are being killed off" story in Bop.
it really wasn't as bad as i thought tho i was really annoyed with them turning Mary Marvel into a spoiled brat.

[I am MODOK]

I've seen each of my favorite characters killed, depowered, or villainized over the past few years. Basically, almost the entire generation of characters I enjoyed when I discovered DC comics has been written out as the focus has transitioned to pre-Crisis characters and concepts. As that never really interested me, I've dropped a ton of DC books and added more Marvel stuff.

[Will.S]

That's not what'll get him fired though. What'll get him fired are sales, or lack of them, and he's just been responsible for a weekly series that sold reasonably well, launching another weekly thats selling reasonably well, and "guiding" an event book to #2 in the sales charts.

On that basis his job is fairly secure at the moment I'd say.

I don't know if the sales are as impressive as they should be really, we'll see how Trinity does and the rest of the Final Crisis mini over the coming months but DC's market share has also decreased a good bit compared to Marvel's. Usually this is a consistent thing but in the past months Marvel has been really overcoming DC in market share, more so than usual. I suppose one can just call it a very bad month for DC and it's possible for things could pick up with Batman RIP, Final Crisis, and Action alongside the other quality titles but they'll need to really pick up on the sales for their monthlies.

I don't think DC's current state can be explained just by editorial incompetence. I mean, we have seen that DiDio is very good at organising events back with the Infinite Crisis and the two years that preceded it.

It seems to me that Warren ellis is not far wrong with his idea about warring factions of DC editorial, the modernisers (DiDio) versus the fossils (Carlin, Levitz...).

Ehh, I'm not sure if Paul Levitz is among those who sabotaged the current DC direction although I'll definitely agree with the Mike Carlin one, that guy seriously needs to be put on some no name book where he'll do the least damage. I'm not sure what's going on there really but they do need to straighten out their editorial departments before they go ahead with a new event.

Apparently she took out most of the Greek Pantheon. More importantly, even in her current diminished form she effortlesly soloed Batman.

The Greek Pantheon thing is a little too nebulous as it was never shown on panel, although I'm interested in the comic where she soloed Batman.

[carabas]

the comic where she soloed Batman.

It was in Final Crisis #2.

[Kid Kamikaze10]

This is just my opinion, but DC characters are just to boring and predictable. I am 32 years old and have been reading comics forever. I also notice that alot of the younger generation are Marvel Comics crazy. They love Spiderman and everything about him. Maybe it's becuase Marvel is the king of the movie theater. May be the stories and characters are ones everyone can relate to.

But DC continues to prove time and time again that that statement isn't true with stories like the Killing Joke, Identity Crisis, Whatever happened to the Man of Tomorrow, etc.

To me, both companies have dynamic characters, but Marvel gains the advantage of having a slew of video games, movies, and T.V shows that are able to express the true nature of their characters.

DC only had the animated shows and a few good movies, but no good video games, and few of their outside media are able show the characters in the DCU in a way that will show people how three dimensional they are in an interesting way.

[Erebus]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard that ever since JLU and Teen Titans ended, sales have dropped.