IS Marvel Retconning too much?

[drupgyu]

I am a longtime collecter of comics and have recently been noticing quite a bit of retconning going on over at Marvel....


After reading recent issues of Illuminati, Captain America and other books, I am just wondering if folks out there feel Marvel is retconning their history too much?

For those of you that don't know 'retcon' is short for 'retroactive continuity' ;the adding of new information to "historical" material, or deliberately changing previously established facts in a work of serial fiction.

[CaptainMech]

yeah i think they do
thing like beyonder in Illuminati and Cap America dont both all that much but thing when they change people persoilty or the carcater all together bother me
ex. ironman taking thor hair form thier 1st meeting and keeping it or elektra being a skrull if that counts

[Expletive Deleted]

Eh, Marvel has been in a constant state of flux since the beginning. Stan did it all the time. And Roy Thomas, ye gods, Roy Thomas . . . the man never met a piece of continuity he didn't love. His obsession with fitting everything together into the most rigidly precise shared universe possible is what gave us the term "retcon" in the first place.

[Madison Carter]

The thing is, there has always been massive amounts of retconning in Marvel books, going all the way back to Avengers #4, when it turned out the Captain America everyone had been reading stories about just a few years before, in the 1950s, "didn't exist" - - and then that was retconned to him actually having existed, just as a different character. Or all the stuff with Iron Fist in the Namor book. Or Sasquatch actually being a demon.

[drupgyu]

Seems like the Illuminati is a big retcon of the last 10+ years of continuity. That whole Beyonder bit?! Sheesh! When's the last time that guy has been in a book?

[Brad Barton]

I think what you guys call "retconning" is just comic book lingo for "updating the story", which all ongoing fictional serials do from time to time. It doesn't ruin the story, it just adds another facet to it.

Updating a story doesn't suddenly nullify the original stories they're updating upon. Those books will always be there for you to go back and read and enjoy. Take the Elektra/Skrull issue: It's not as if every issue of every comic Elektra's been in since her death will suddenly vaporize in your longbox if it's revealed she's been a Skrull the whole time. Those issues can stand on their own two feet, continuity be damned, and seeing a retcon as an "alteration" is something the reader chooses to do in his own minds eye; after all, all continuity is is perception.

[hyzmarca]

I strongly believe that retconning is to be avoided whenever possible and they should be kept as small as possible when they are necessary. Retcons are a sign of sloppy storytelling. In a shared universe, some retcons are unavoidable due to the lack of a single cohesive vision for the story; but, many recent retcons have simply been gratuitous (Beyonder as a Mutant Inhuman).

[mattx110]

it's a nice way to go "you didn't see this coming" and do something interesting. take someone's idea and twist it a little to get something they didn't think of. if it turns out bad, you ruined a classic story. if it turns out good, you brought new light onto a classic story, and made new links to historical continuity.

[Madison Carter]

Seems like the Illuminati is a big retcon of the last 10+ years of continuity. That whole Beyonder bit?! Sheesh! When's the last time that guy has been in a book?

One of the Annihilation prologue minis, actually, and before that in Thanos' brief but great series.

[drupgyu]

I think what you guys call "retconning" is just comic book lingo for "updating the story", which all ongoing fictional serials do from time to time. It doesn't ruin the story, it just adds another facet to it.

Updating a story doesn't suddenly nullify the original stories they're updating upon. Those books will always be there for you to go back and read and enjoy. Take the Elektra/Skrull issue: It's not as if every issue of every comic Elektra's been in since her death will suddenly vaporize in your longbox if it's revealed she's been a Skrull the whole time. Those issues can stand on their own two feet, continuity be damned, and seeing a retcon as an "alteration" is something the reader chooses to do in his own minds eye; after all, all continuity is, is perception.

Very good points.

When I refer to retconning, I am talking about a defined history (i.e. the Beyonder is from a pocket universe and is really a cosmic cube and is so non-human, Peter Parker has to show him how to pee) and altering significantly what has been history for a decade (the Beyonder is in fact SPOILER an Inhuman mutant).

To me, that's not an update, that's a retcon. Ultimate universe is an update, Gwen Stacy, virginal innocent turned into SPOILER mother of children that are Norman Osborn's is a retcon. Invisible Woman being really powerful, an update, finding out the Fantastic Four are actually mutants would be a retcon.(Please let that last one not happen!)

[Omega Alpha]

I strongly believe that retconning is to be avoided whenever possible and they should be kept as small as possible when they are necessary. Retcons are a sign of sloppy storytelling.

No, they aren't. Retcons are just a storytelling device as much as any other, and can have great results. Magneto being a Nazi Survivor who fights to save mutantkind is a retcon, for example, and the very existence of some great characters, like Elektra or Mr. Sinister, is a retcon itself.

[drupgyu]

One of the Annihilation prologue minis, actually, and before that in Thanos' brief but great series.

I have those...I don't remember him being in it...I suppose that is fairly recent...Was he a SPOILER mutant Inhuman then?

[Expletive Deleted]

If it turns out bad, you ruined a classic story. if it turns out good, you brought new light onto a classic story, and made new links to historical continuity.

Like everything, it's all about execution.

[drupgyu]

No, they aren't. Retcons are just a storytelling device as much as any other, and can have great results. Magneto being a Nazi Survivor who fights to save mutantkind is a retcon, for example, and the very existence of some great characters, like Elektra or Mr. Sinister, is a retcon itself.

Sinister yes, but Electra? All they told of her origin was she and Matt were in college right?

Perhaps the question I should have asked is whether Marvel's current crop of retcons are good.

[Madison Carter]

I have those...I don't remember him being in it...I suppose that is fairly recent...Was he a SPOILER mutant Inhuman then?

No, he was a hot chick. Look for the character called the Maker. That's him.

Her.

Whatever. Long story.