MJ Statue Revisited or Why I Hate Over-the-top Feminism

[Johnny Triangles]

Why are so many people acting like the worst thing about the MJ statue is that she is doing the laundry, as if that makes her a 'sell-out' to womankind or contemptible or spineless. Some women actually like doing nice things for their men sometimes. We're all for equal rights, aren't we? Well if a man was doing his wife's laundry, would the politically correct types be mocking him for being a wimp or being subservient? No, they'd say he was just being a good husband. So why would it be okay for a man to do something nice for a woman, but bad for a woman to do something nice for a man? That's not equal rights you are advocating for women at that point, it's superior rights.

Also, what kind of message do people send to women who choose to be homemakers or who like helping out their men with housework when they call them "domesticated" and use other derogatory remarks?

Do you still open doors for women and let them go through first? Do you do a majority of the paying on dates? Are you expected to be the main provider for the family? Does doing any of these nice things make you weak and contemptible? So why is any mention of a woman doing housework a sign of weakness by a woman?

[Tommy]

Do you still open doors for women and let them go through first?

Nope. Not at all.

Do you do a majority of the paying on dates?

Hell no! I still am upset that I paid for one date.

Are you expected to be the main provider for the family?

Nope.

Does doing any of these nice things make you weak and contemptible? So why is any mention of a woman doing housework a sign of weakness by a woman?

I like to think it makes me smart...

[Pól Rua]

Yeah, 'cos feminism's ALL ABOUT pulling out chairs.
Nice Strawman, Johnny.

[Sean Whitmore]

There's another thread about this same stupid statue on the Spider-Man Board. Brian, any chance I can dump it here and spare myself this imagined nerd-battle of the sexes?


SEAN

[Paperghost]

Why are so many people acting like the worst thing about the MJ statue is that she is doing the laundry, as if that makes her a 'sell-out' to womankind or contemptible or spineless. Some women actually like doing nice things for their men sometimes. We're all for equal rights, aren't we? Well if a man was doing his wife's laundry, would the politically correct types be mocking him for being a wimp or being subservient? No, they'd say he was just being a good husband. So why would it be okay for a man to do something nice for a woman, but bad for a woman to do something nice for a man? That's not equal rights you are advocating for women at that point, it's superior rights.

Also, what kind of message do people send to women who choose to be homemakers or who like helping out their men with housework when they call them "domesticated" and use other derogatory remarks?

Do you still open doors for women and let them go through first? Do you do a majority of the paying on dates? Are you expected to be the main provider for the family? Does doing any of these nice things make you weak and contemptible? So why is any mention of a woman doing housework a sign of weakness by a woman?

you're kidding, right?

sure, she can do something nice for her husband. whatever.

but is that statue supposed to be a representation of smart, confident mary jane "doing something nice for her husband", or yet another depiction of a previously smart, confident female character in comics reduced to mindless eye candy (in the most ludicrous pose possible) for sad losers to fap over?

Tell me, what's the intent behind the statue? The former, or the latter?

You don't have to be an angry feminist to see that the statue sucks a thousand ways from sunday.

[Ryan Day]

Sometimes, if you're lucky, women perform sexual acts, too. Can we agree that Mary Jane giving Spidey a blowjob would be an inappropriate statue?

It's not about doing laundry. It's about the fact that statues like these are generally about capturing the iconic qualities of characters. Take a look at some of these. They're all about power poses, looking cool, and making the audience say "Yeah! Spider-Man!"

And so Mary Jane does laundry. Mary Jane, who's generally a party girl, vibrant and full of life, who's generally been more successful in real life than her husband.

Does she do laundry? Probably. But when we think of Mary Jane, do we think "housewife"? I sure don't. The statue is about sex, and that's about it.

I don't think the statue is that bad. It certainly pales next to a lot of the other crap DC and Marvel do, and I'd rather just ignore the whole line of products aimed at horny teenage (and older) boys. But it's really not hard to understand why it bothers people.

[Matt Algren]

So why is any mention of a woman doing housework a sign of weakness by a woman?

This isn't about 'any mention of a woman doing housework'. Of all the images of MJ they could use, the powers that be at Marvel decided that the best one to spend a lot of time and money creating was an image of her bent over a laundry basket. With her tits presented for inspection. With her ass sticking out. Wearing a thong and jeans that are ripped to show her ass. Wearing a pearl necklace. Without shoes. Without her wedding ring.

This isn't a picture of a real person who happened to be doing laundry when somebody pulled out a camera. Thought went into her pose, what she'd be doing, the shape of her ass, what kind of shoes she'd be wearing, the color of her hair, etc, etc, etc.

This is the image that Marvel wanted to produce, the message they wanted to send. That's fine; it's their business. Unfortunately Marvel's decision to promote the stereotype of a juvenile comic book reader affects all of us. That's what people are reacting to.

[Punch]

Come one let's be real. That statue is nothing compared to half he stuff that goes on in the comics. MJ has always been objectified.
Why is everyone so uptight? Would it be better if she was dancing in a mini-skirt? She's a party girl right, or would that be sexist too? Wait she can't wear a mini-skirt, she goes to clubs in a floor length dress.

This statue had to show who MJ was. Who is she? Spider-Man's hot wife, and the statue gets that across, no matter how ugly it is.

[Matt Algren]

Come one let's be real. That statue is nothing compared to half he stuff that goes on in the comics. MJ has always been objectified.
Why is everyone so uptight? Would it be better if she was dancing in a mini-skirt? She's a party girl right, or would that be sexist too? Wait she can't wear a mini-skirt, she goes to clubs in a floor length dress.

This statue had to show who MJ was. Who is she? Spider-Man's hot wife, and the statue gets that across, no matter how ugly it is.

So showing her doing laundry is the best way to show that she's Spider-Man's wife?

She's wearing a fucking pearl necklace, for goodness sake.

[Paperghost]

This statue had to show who MJ was. Who is she? Spider-Man's hot wife, and the statue gets that across, no matter how ugly it is.

only if you consider an amazingly unrealistic pose "hot". I find it laughable. Its pandering to the most ludicrous notions of what a majority of comics nerds imagine is "hot". also, there's more to mary janes character than simply being "spider mans hot wife". Oh, and its "still hot", even if its "ugly"? How does that work, anyway?

That statue is nothing compared to half he stuff that goes on in the comics.

...is faulty logic. "they've always done stupid stuff like this, so let's just let them carry on doing it". Uh, no?

MJ has always been objectified.

...second verse, same as the first. "they've always done stupid stuff like this, so let's just let them carry on doing it". Uh, no? Unless of course you're happy to trundle along and endlessly accept garbage, of course.

Why is everyone so uptight?

..is a common attitude and response trotted out by people that, because they don't share the same sense of annoyance, simply dismiss anyone who might actually be offended by something. maybe they're so "uptight" because it joins michael turners Power Girl on the "lets take a supposedly strong, independent and forceful character with a fair amount of historical importance and turn her into nothing but tits and ass and oh yeah, here's a pearl necklace just to polish things off" pile. Its stupid because Spider Man 3 comes out, is a huge hit and then stereotypical notions of sad, fat nerds with dribble on their face and a bulge in their pants are reinforced by lame, stupid garbage like the statue in question. Its lame because any number of female comic fans will no doubt have any and all of their objections to this statue dismissed with accusations of them being "angry lesbians who aren't hot and don't even like sharing a planet with their penis wielding oppressors anyway".

Would it be better if she was dancing in a mini-skirt? She's a party girl right, or would that be sexist too? Wait she can't wear a mini-skirt, she goes to clubs in a floor length dress.

Oh dear. There's a difference between people objecting to this because its "sexist" and objecting to this because its demeaning to the character and whats she's supposedly about. Mary Jane dancing around in a mini skirt, or strutting around in her underwear on a catwalk for that matter would actually be more acceptable than this sad and sorry fap-fest, with the caveat that she's actually made to look like a living, breathing, thinking woman and not a horrendously contorted piece of "do me now" that goes against anything constructive and positive the character has built up over the years.

Of course, the sad thing is that nobody would likely ever make a statue like that, because pretty much everything in the comics industry is pandering to losers in their basement with weird, weird ideas about what is and isn't a respectful and interesting representation of a female comic book character. I don't see that changing any time soon, but that doesn't mean people who object to this kind of thing are going to shut up about it either.

[Punch]

[QUOTE=Paperghost;4837720]only if you consider an amazingly unrealistic pose "hot". I find it laughable. Its pandering to the most ludicrous notions of what a majority of comics nerds imagine is "hot". also, there's more to mary janes character than simply being "spider mans hot wife".
Never said that the statue was hot. I said it gets the idea across that Spider-Man has a hot wife. Surely you see what I mean.

...is faulty logic. "they've always done stupid stuff like this, so let's just let them carry on doing it". Uh, no?

...second verse, same as the first. "they've always done stupid stuff like this, so let's just let them carry on doing it". Uh, no? Unless of course you're happy to trundle along and endlessly accept garbage, of course.

There's nothing faulty about that logic. The objectified statue comes from an objectified character. It's simple really. There's just so much information you can put into a statue.

..is a common attitude and response trotted out by people that, because they don't share the same sense of annoyance, simply dismiss anyone who might actually be offended by something. maybe they're so "uptight" because it joins michael turners Power Girl on the "lets take a supposedly strong, independent and forceful character with a fair amount of historical importance and turn her into nothing but tits and ass and oh yeah, here's a pearl necklace just to polish things off" pile. Its stupid because Spider Man 3 comes out, is a huge hit and then stereotypical notions of sad, fat nerds with dribble on their face and a bulge in their pants are reinforced by lame, stupid garbage like the statue in question. Its lame because any number of female comic fans will no doubt have any and all of their objections to this statue dismissed with accusations of them being "angry lesbians who aren't hot and don't even like sharing a planet with their penis wielding oppressors anyway".

I'm not dismissing anyone, or rather I don't mean to. I just find it very funny and hypocritical that there's such an outrage over a statue, when throughout the whole industry the same type of thing is happening on a monthly basis. Where's all the fan outrage then? Shouldn't it start with the comics?

Oh dear. There's a difference between people objecting to this because its "sexist" and objecting to this because its demeaning to the character and whats she's supposedly about. Mary Jane dancing around in a mini skirt, or strutting around in her underwear on a catwalk for that matter would actually be more acceptable than this sad and sorry fap-fest, with the caveat that she's actually made to look like a living, breathing, thinking woman and not a horrendously contorted piece of "do me now" that goes against anything constructive and positive the character has built up over the years.

Of course, the sad thing is that nobody would likely ever make a statue like that, because pretty much everything in the comics industry is pandering to losers in their basement with weird, weird ideas about what is and isn't a respectful and interesting representation of a female comic book character. I don't see that changing any time soon, but that doesn't mean people who object to this kind of thing are going to shut up about it either.

How would you make a statue that has as much information as that one? We get that MJ is Spider-Man's wife not because she's doing laundry and that's a woman's job, but because she's intimately involved in his life by washing the costume for his secret ID. Who else could do this? She's in a "sexy" position because MJ is supposed to be sexy. Is this the best way to convey this? I don't know, but it's certainly a valid one.
I don't buy into the whole demeaning the character thing because there is no one set character of MJ. I know everyone likes the illusion that they're reading about the same person for 40 years, but it's not the case. Everyone has their own take on these characters. Anyway is this the only statue of MJ?
Is MJ supposed to be hot? yes.Is she Spider-Man's wife? yes. Do wives wash their husbands clothes on occasion? yes. So what's the problem? If your wife(assuming you're a man) said that she wanted to wash your clothes, would you tell her no?

Besides is there anyone buying this statue? If yes then it seems that you're views are not in sync with the general comics population. By all means keep fighting for what you believe is right, I admire and appreciate it. but if people keep buying this, and the comics that are like this, then there's no reason for Marvel to stop producing things like this

[Ryan Day]

I'm not dismissing anyone, or rather I don't mean to. I just find it very funny and hypocritical that there's such an outrage over a statue, when throughout the whole industry the same type of thing is happening on a monthly basis. Where's all the fan outrage then? Shouldn't it start with the comics?

It does. Quite regularly.

[Punch]

It does. Quite regularly.

That's great. Is it working?

[pmpknface]

This whole "outrage" thing is insane. I could point out a numer of more "offensive" statues.

People need to get a grip.

[Matt Algren]

This whole "outrage" thing is insane. I could point out a [number] of more "offensive" statues.

Please enlighten us.

I have no doubt that there is other products from Marvel (and DC, and others) that are pretty offensive. That fact in no way removes the offensiveness of this statue.