Superhero rankings

[Sijo]

When Goliath died in Civil War, many fans said he didn't matter because he was a "C-Lister" or even a "D-Lister.'' This is of course far from the only times fans (and occasionally, writers) have used such a term (or similar ones such as "second rater" or "third stringer") to describe different kinds of superheroes. But it got me to thinking: exactly what defines a character as being of a particular rank? And how many ranks are there?

I think we can look at it in two ways: in terms of popularity, and in terms of how competent they are.

In popularity, my guess is that the ranks would go like this:

A-List: These are character who can support their own series, and have done so for a long time. Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman are the classic examples. (Teams can also be rated this way; the Justice League has always been considered an A-Rank class team, even when composed mostly of lower-rank heroes, except perhaps during the Detroit League era.)

B-List: This covers most other characters and teams that currently have their own series, or had one not long ago.

C-List: These would be characters that don't have their own series, or did a long time ago. Goliath, in this sense, was a C-lister.

D-List: These characters are not believed to be able support their own series and have never had one- though a good writer can often come up with a "take" on them that turns out to be popular enough to suddenly earn them one, therefore going from D to B class. Many X-Men characters are examples of this.

Now, looking at them in terms of competency:

A-List:A hero who is considered to be among the best in his or her world, due to his power, intelligence, influence, etc. Superman and Batman (despite his lack of powers) definitely go in here.

B-List: These are the average heroes. They aren't that impressive (at least when compared to other heroes!) but there's nothing wrong with them. Most superhero team members are B-listers; Goliath was one as well.

C-list: There's something wrong with these characters. Nothing too bad, but they don't come across as competent or trustworthy as the others. Maybe they have a bad attitude that lands them in trouble often, or just don't have that much power. She-Hulk, at one point, was definitely a C-lister- she pretty much just punched people and hit on the male heroes (of course, since then, she's been rewritten as an Ace Lawyer.)

D-list: These are the truly incompetent heroes. They either have useless powers, or they're just plain stupid. These are usually (but not always) humorous characters. The Great Lake Avengers definitely go in here (though in some versions, they're more like C-listers.)

Note that these two lists are NOT always equivalent! The Martian Manhunter, for example, in between being a founder and pillar of the Justice League, having more powers than Superman and being highly intelligent and responsible, is definitely an A-lister within the DC Universe, but has never quite been one in terms of comic book popularity.

Of course, characters CAN move up (or down) on either of these scales; it all depends on the writing (and the whims of the public.)

[stealthwise]

I'd say that in terms of ranking popularity, that media presence outside of comics is a huge consideration as well. For example, Wonder Woman's comics haven't sold well in decades, but her 70s tv show and prominent appearances in things like Super Friends and Justice League ensure that people will view her as an A-lister for years to come.

I'd say that Aquaman is a B-lister, for the same reasons. Same with Green Arrow.

[Johnny Triangles]

D-list: These are the truly incompetent heroes. They either have useless powers, or they're just plain stupid. These are usually (but not always) humorous characters. The Great Lake Avengers definitely go in here (though in some versions, they're more like C-listers.)

Note that these two lists are NOT always equivalent! The Martian Manhunter, for example, in between being a founder and pillar of the Justice League, having more powers than Superman and being highly intelligent and responsible, is definitely an A-lister within the DC Universe, but has never quite been one in terms of comic book popularity.

Of course, characters CAN move up (or down) on either of these scales; it all depends on the writing (and the whims of the public.)

The thought that a funny humorous character must also be a joke is a cliche trap that many writers and fans often fall into, often unconsciously. That is what's bad about the way GLA have been handled post-Byrne,but to Byrne's credit, he actually stepped outside the box with his handling of GLA. If you re-read their first appearance by Byrne, they were not the least bit incompetent. It was a brilliant piece of cognitive dissonance: they looked like total jokes, but were incredibly competent. Hawkeye said so himself, and even wanted to take them under his wing because he was so impressed with how they handled themselves. They successfully held their own against a mind-controlled She-Hulk and a bunch of dangerous villains without breaking a sweat or expressing the least amount of self-doubt. I thought it was a cool gimmick, that they look like and have powers that you'd expect to belong to total jokes, but they turn out to be anything but. Plus I thought it was a true inspiration: it's easy to buy a billionare hunk to be the best (Batman), or a gorgeous, all-powerful white male to reach the top (Superman), but to see the GLA defy odds and earn respect with just hard work, training and confidence was beautiful.

Then Slott came along, whose work I otherwise tend to really like, and totally put them into the elitist, cliched "I'm incompetent and a D-list loser compared to the cool kids" type of superhero story that makes for such depressing reading (see Blue Beetle in Countdown to Infinite Crisis for another example). At some point comics went from being empowering wish fulfillment fantasies to stories dedicated to reaffirming the reader's sense of loserdom.

[Sijo]

OK, so who qualifies for what ranks?

In terms of comics popularity, the A-listers would be:

In DC: Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, the Flash and Aquaman. (I know Aquaman is considered to be a bad joke by many people, but the fact remains that he's better known than most other superheroes, and he keeps getting his own series despite their getting cancelled often.) Captain Marvel may or may not qualify.

As for teams, only the Justice League and the Teen Titans qualify. (Though a case could be made for the Legion of Superheroes, too.)

In Marvel: Spider-Man, Iron Man, Captain America, Daredevil, The Hulk, and Thor. (A case can be made for Wolverine too, though I'm not sure if he could stand on his own without his X-Men connections.)

As for teams: Avengers, Fantastic Four, and X-Men.

But are these characters A-listers in terms of competency?

I think most of them are. Tough I have my doubts about Aquaman. Other than being King of Atlantis, he just doesn't seem to be up there with the other "Big Seven" of the Justice League in power, skill or intelligence. He's even been replaced as main telepath by J'onn. The Legion are definitely an A-List team, at least in the future they operate in.

Some people don't consider Spider-Man to be as powerful or competent as the other Major Marvel heroes. However, he's defeated lots of powerful villains on his own, helped lots of heroes (even had his own regular team-up book once) and has proven very resourceful at times. So I say he is.

Daredevil doesn't impress me very much. He has supersenses (and would be invaluable because of them in many adventures, especially as regards lie-detection) but he hardly ever is used for that. He's a good street-level hero, but not much more.

The Hulk is not even a true hero. He's either a fugitive or a menace depending on his mood. He is superstrong, and Banner's intellect is great, but there are other characters who can be counted on for that (Thor and Reed Richards, for example.) He's definitely an A-lister... just not in the hero ranks.

Same thing with Wolverine: he's the best at what he does. Unfortunately, that's killing. Not a thing heroes are supposed to do. He's also got some spy skills, but we cover that with SHIELD.

What other characters or teams should be considered A-Listers?

In DC, Captain Marvel definitely is one, as is Martian Manhunter. As for teams, the Justice Society is often there to help the JLA when they need it, I'd dare say they are more competent than the Titans.

Marvel has LOTS of characters who are A-Rank as heroes but not as comics titles: Doctor Strange, Sub Mariner (despite his bitchy behavior), Silver Surfer, Captain Mar-Vell, Professor X and Nick Fury. All four of the Fantastic Four are definitely A-list individually- and not just because of their great powers; even Ben and Johnny are more competent than the average hero (and they have over a decade of experience too.) As for teams, the Defenders was once as competent as the Avengers, and SHIELD (back when it had Fury and his friends in charge) was definitely a great force for good.

[Frostbite883]

In terms of the Inferior Five, how competent are they?