Captain America #25 *Spoilers*

**Jmacq1** · 03-07-2007, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by RacShade

Highlight to read

Spoilers n stuff

According to Ms. Marvel hes not dead, yet. He's very badly wounded. They have him hidden away at the Raft and they are trying to keep him alive.

Marvel's already got a statement on Newsarama saying that Carol's statement "wasn't what it seems."

Personally I think it translates into: "Actually, he's dead, but we salvaged his DNA and extracted the Super-Soldier serum from his blood, so we can make some nifty cyborg murderclones of him, too!"

**Magneto Rocks** · 03-07-2007, 12:55 PM

The Armin Zola thing made me think it was a cop-out, but there's no way it is. Marvel would have alerted the press or downplayed it rather than contacting them if it was; they wouldn't bother with Fallen Son or any of it. Like the way "The Other" didn't get coverage for the death of Spider-Man because he was coming back, there is no way Marvel bring Cap back for at LEAST a year.

He'll be back, of course.

I think it's interesting I so violently defended the idea of Cap not dying in CW7 but I don't need to take back anything as half of what I said is irrelevant for this death (EG: That he would never die outside his own book, that the Red Skull would execute his plan first, etc)

**MAK15** · 03-07-2007, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by Magneto Rocks

The Armin Zola thing made me think it was a cop-out, but there's no way it is. Marvel would have alerted the press or downplayed it rather than contacting them if it was; they wouldn't bother with Fallen Son or any of it. Like the way "The Other" didn't get coverage for the death of Spider-Man because he was coming back, there is no way Marvel bring Cap back for at LEAST a year.

He'll be back, of course.

I think it's interesting I so violently defended the idea of Cap not dying in CW7 but I don't need to take back anything as half of what I said is irrelevant for this death (EG: That he would never die outside his own book, that the Red Skull would execute his plan first, etc)

So when Ms. Marvel told Spider-Woman that Cap wasn't dead she flat out lied?
yeah, great way to make freinds, danvers

**Violently Apathetic** · 03-07-2007, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by MAK15

So when Ms. Marvel told Spider-Woman that Cap wasn't dead she flat out lied?
yeah, great way to make freinds, danvers

Wow, the Pro-registration side is full of demagogues and liars, who would have thought?

**Post-It** · 03-07-2007, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by MAK15

So when Ms. Marvel told Spider-Woman that Cap wasn't dead she flat out lied?
yeah, great way to make freinds, danvers

Thats the thing, she wouldn't lie to SW. They have been best-friends for a long time. Why would she lie to her and then allow her to get away? I could understand lying to her in order to trick her to come along peacefully but that didnt happen.

If Cap is dead, he'll be back in WWH to rally everyone. If they brought Bucky back to life you can be sure they will bring Steve Rogers back to life.

What I want to see is what Wolverine will do when he finds out. I imagine he will not be pleased that his former war buddy was shot in the back by a sniper. Better yet what will Thor and Namor's reaction be?

**Kevinroc** · 03-07-2007, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by Gregg Helmberger

True, but irrelevant. Yes, Brubaker is a good writer. Yes, he did well with Daredevil, and bringing Bucky back was handled as well as it could be handled given that it was a fundamentally flawed decision to begin with (Bucky was a lot more interesting dead than alive). However, this isn't Daredevil in prison and it isn't Bucky. It's Captain America -- symbol and man, the leader of the Marvel universe -- being offed in a deeply lame and unheroic manner.

Did you actually read the issue? Because having read the issue, I can tell you...

There is nothing "lame" about this death scene. If I actually believed Cap was going to stay dead... THIS should be how it was done.

I fundamentally disagree. Things don't stagnate for lack of becoming "very different." Things stagnate when creativity and talent aren't brought to bear in insightful and useful ways. Change itself is neither automatically good nor automatically bad -- it is possible to change into something good OR into something bad. In comics though, as in life, change for the sake of change tends to have more negative effects than good ones.

More to the point, Marvel 616 is changing FROM a place where heroes did heroic things and tried to do right TO a place where the United States has been taken over by fascist former heroes, the Hulk was protected by heroes for years in spite of his being a ravening, murderous monster who caused mass civilian deaths time and again, and Steve Rogers -- Captain freaking America -- is not only jailed and murdered, but murdered in a manner both unheroic and fundamentally uninteresting. There are no good guys anymore, apparently, only villains and slightly worse villains. It's not stagnation, true enough, but it's also nothing even remotely resembling something I want to read about. If your mileage varies, then enjoy the new status quo.

And... in your insight... If you read Cap #25... you wouldn't be proclaiming this to be the death of the Marvel Universe.

Captain America #25 is a lot of things. But most importantly, it is a great super hero comic book.

**Senior Partner** · 03-07-2007, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted By Kevinroc
Did you actually read the issue?

I would have loved to! Fortunately, I had the honour of instead getting home from work and finding out CBR doesn't know how to use spoiler tags on it's homepage!

Not really contributing to the discussion here, I'm just pissed because it sounds like a really great issue.

**lalalei2001** · 03-07-2007, 01:33 PM

Are scans from the issue anywhere online?

**1WEBHEAD** · 03-07-2007, 01:41 PM

:(

Wow. What a great issue, no doubt about that. Bru, pat yourself on the back, you did one hell of a job, a real page turner. Great art from Epting too. Though I highly doubt Cap is going to stay dead, you guys did a FLAWLESS job on executing it. Can't wait for next issue!

5/5

**Cayman** · 03-07-2007, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by Kevinroc

And... in your insight... If you read Cap #25... you wouldn't be proclaiming this to be the death of the Marvel Universe.

Captain America #25 is a lot of things. But most importantly, it is a great super hero comic book.

That is is. It was great storytelling in both the writing and the art.

**smoothjokes** · 03-07-2007, 01:56 PM

I really think Brubaker is going to go in the direction of making Bucky, the New Captain America. Steve Rogers will return, I'm not sure when, if I'm Marvel I wait 3 years and see how the New Cap (Bucky is the most logical choice) does and once Steve returns, boy oh boy will he be upset at being resurrected.

**XPac** · 03-07-2007, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by MAK15

So when Ms. Marvel told Spider-Woman that Cap wasn't dead she flat out lied?
yeah, great way to make freinds, danvers

Carol was probably lying about A LOT of stuff when she talked to Spider-Woman. But as far as Caps death goes... I'll wager that's the mystery that Bendis is talking about when he says there's one that going to be running through New and Mighty Avengers.

Something is up there. Not sure what exactly that is, and I'm not sure Carol is a part of it or even aware of it.

**andy khouri** · 03-07-2007, 02:51 PM

CBR News in association with Atomic Comics caught up with "Captain America" writer Ed Brubaker for a quick chat to discuss today's big moment revealed in issue #25.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/ne...em.cgi?id=9904

**MAK15** · 03-07-2007, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by XPac

Carol was probably lying about A LOT of stuff when she talked to Spider-Woman. But as far as Caps death goes... I'll wager that's the mystery that Bendis is talking about when he says there's one that going to be running through New and Mighty Avengers.

Something is up there. Not sure what exactly that is, and I'm not sure Carol is a part of it or even aware of it.

did you realize she was lying when she said Tony was going to ask SW out?

**Kid Kamikaze10** · 03-07-2007, 03:00 PM

If there was anything more gut-wrenching than Cap's death, it was Sharon's reaction to finding out that she did it. Man, I felt bad. I've never seen a SHIELD break down like that.