Death, and how to survive it.

[Mr Blinky]

It's no secret that death means virtually nothing in the DC/Marvel universes. When even Bucky and Jason Todd can stage comebacks, surely nobody can rest easy in the grave!

The reason for this, I think, is because the big two don't like to waste a trademarked character. And quite rightly so; just look at how much money the Blade trilogy of movies made, and is he even a B-list character? Theoretically, any hero or villain could be used to turn a profit, so they cling on to them like a super-glued limpet.

Fair enough, but as a reader it's starting to irrtate me: up against impossible odds, the hero bravely sacrifices his/herself, dies nobly - and then comes back. :( It devalues the story and makes the death look like a cheap shock tactic. Which it may well be in some cases, but that's beside the point.

Anyway, I was wondering if a compromise was possible: leave the character dead, but keep the trademark alive. After all, you'd only have to think up a way to have the hero/villain make a cameo appearance once in a while, and that should be good enough to retain control of 'em as an intellectual property. Still all good as far as merchandise and T.V./film rights go, yeah?

Then I realised that there were actually several ways to achieve this, listed below (inspired by the insightful posts of Lorendiac), and I was wondering if anyone could think of any more?

1) Clones! Yeah, I know, they suck, but cloning would provide a way to bring the costumed identity back, while leaving the original character dead.
I believe D.C. used this trick to bring back the Guardian in their Superman line in the 90's. Same powers, same appearance, stick them in the old outfit and away you go!

2) Parallel worlds! "This is Captain Supreme - but Captain Supreme from another world!!!" Even better than the clone, this 'copy' is absolutely identical, but the 'real world' version remains worm food! For example; the return of Proteus in Exiles.

3) The successor! See Lorendiac's post here. Wally West, Kyle Rayner, etc. Superheroics as a franchise!

4) Time Travel! Travel back in time to meet your hero (e.g. the new Mr Terrific meeting the original in J.S.A.), or better yet, bring them forward to meet you (see Hawkeye's time-travelling appearances in She-Hulk, or the return of you-know-who in Civil War: the Return)!

5) Hallucination! You feature the dearly departed in the story, but they're not really there! It's a vision, a day dream, a result of mind control, whatever. Wasn't there a story in which the Silver Surfer once had his conscience speak directly to him, in the form of the original Captain Marvel? I'm fuzzy on the details of that, admittedly.

6) The Flashback! The most simple option. The character features in an Untold Tale, set earlier in their career: Kurt Busiek's Untold Tales of Spiderman had Gwen Stacy running around, IIRC. May involve a dash of retcon, but it's still the easiest choice.

Any others?

[Alex L]

I'd add on time travel as a way to bring back the original character while still leaving the character dead.

See: Barry Allen's cameo in Chain Lightning, Hal Jordan in Emerald Knights, a variation of this tactic for Supernova/Booster Gold.

[Tobias March]

I'd add on time travel as a way to bring back the original character while still leaving the character dead.

See: Barry Allen's cameo in Chain Lightning, Hal Jordan in Emerald Knights, a variation of this tactic for Supernova/Booster Gold.

Captain Marvel...

[dancj]

[quote=Mr Blinky;4337076]The reason for this, I think, is because the big two don't like to waste a trademarked character./quote]

I'm not sure. Obviously in some cases like Superman and Donna Troy they were killed with the intention of bringing them back, but in the long term cases like Bucky and Jason Todd, I think it's more down to individual writers who have a pet character they'd like to bring back.

[Lorendiac]

Then I realised that there were actually several ways to achieve this, listed below (inspired by the insightful posts of Lorendiac), and I was wondering if anyone could think of any more?

Thank you for the kind words, Mr Blinky. As it so happens, over this past weekend I spent a few hours working with copies of most of my longer posts on the peculiarities of the Superhero Lifestyle (such as the way they keep dying and then bouncing back at the drop of a hat) and trying to edit and organize them into a small website.

I am not quite ready to post those interlinked webpages over on GeoCities and then post a link to them here, but I expect to do so very soon. Possibly within the next 24 hours! :)

[Mr Blinky]

[QUOTE=dancj;4342493]

The reason for this, I think, is because the big two don't like to waste a trademarked character./quote]

I'm not sure. Obviously in some cases like Superman and Donna Troy they were killed with the intention of bringing them back, but in the long term cases like Bucky and Jason Todd, I think it's more down to individual writers who have a pet character they'd like to bring back.

That's a good point. It would explain why Ambush Bug popped up in 52: I doubt that D.C.'s been shifting much 'Bug merchandise lately. Or, you know, ever.

That having been said, now that those characters are back (and making money for the companies), I bet they don't disappear back into obscurity any time soon.

And Lorendiac: I look forward to reading your work! :)

[Lorendiac]

And Lorendiac: I look forward to reading your work! :)

Available tomorrow, it looks like. I don't have an Internet connection in my apartment. I thought I had brought a copy of the finished product of the main page for the new website with me today, to where I am right now, but it turns out I didn't -- the flash drive I carry around only has an older "rough draft." The "final draft" is still sitting on my hard drive about 13 miles away from where I'm sitting as I type this. :(

So tomorrow I'll be putting up the "front page index" along with copies of my Numbered Lists, my "Superhero Reproduction" articles, my "X-Men Fatality Timeline," my parodies of Jeph Loeb's "Hush" and JMS's "Sins Past," and various other odds and ends I've written over the last few years, all linked together over on my GeoCities account. Then I'll probably change my sig to include a link to that site at the bottom of everything I post on here so that people get the idea that the site exists :)

[MartinRedmond]

There's no such thing as a B-List character, there's just crappy writers.

[Lorendiac]

Okay, I think I've got the bugs out. A collection of about 50 of my lengthier pieces on superhero comic books is now available on my GeoCities website:

Lorendiac's Superhero Writings

I went for a very simple structure. Everything is listed by title on the front page, organized by category (DC, Marvel, and "Superhero Comics in General") and then arranged alphabetically or as part of a larger "series" of posts. Brief summaries of each piece are available alongside the link to its own page. The page for each individual piece has a link at the bottom, leading back to the "front page" with the master list. Hopefully all the links still work now that I've transferred those pages from a flash drive to the GeoCities server . . . the ones I've tested work, anyway.

[Alex Scott]

There's always "Wished them back with the Dragon Balls."

[Nitz the Bloody]

There's no such thing as a B-List character, there's just crappy writers.

But characters are the extensions of writers, so if there are crappy writers, there can be crappy characters. And they'll stay crappy unless a writer alters them dramatically, so much so that they have little resemblence to their original self.

Of course, in the case of the Stilt Man, some are just lost causes. :p

[Mr Blinky]

There's no such thing as a B-List character, there's just crappy writers.

Well, yes and no. I've always had a soft spot for the Marvel villain Diablo, and I've seen writers put the character to good use. This is despite the fact that Stan Lee himself has admitted that Diablo's the worst character he ever created! :D
So, yeah, one man's B-list is another man's pet favourite, capable of inspiring dozens of great stories.

Except for Stilt Man. He's beyond all hope. :)

I didn't really mean B-list in terms of the quality of the character though; rather, the popularity of the character. The character of the Martian Manhunter is not inherently inferior to that of Superman, yet Supes is more popular.

Marvel will kill off Goliath, but Spider-Man is guaranteed to make it through any cross-over alive.