Avengers Movie *Spoilers*

[listenuscrewheads]

Harry Diedfor....nothing!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

Thanks for the Harry Potter spoiler, I was just saying the other day how I hadn't seen the last two movies yet, but I'm glad to hear the guy with glasses snuffed it, just as long as wee ginger guy survives, I'm happy. haha, but seriously, I'm not bothered, never been much of a Potter fan, just in case you thought would that bother me, you've cheered me up in fact, I thought it might've been ginger who bought it at the end, haha Hell, I think i'll enjoy watching those films a lot more now, lol.

and as for your assertation that the Helicarrier will be the superior onscreen flying machine, over the new Bat-flying-tumbler thing...eh...apart from the Heli-carrier rising out of the water, all it was was a bunch of people standing around in a room. I think the new Bat-plane will actually give us some flying thrills onscreen, as opposed to living room.

[RDMacQ]

Are you referring to his leadership? Aside from throwing his shield, which I view as hand to hand combat, he didn't do much else.

Which was still way more than either Hawkeye or Widow contributed.

I would say grabbing onto a glider going 100 miles an hour, dangling without dislocating your shoulder and then flying the damn thing was a bit more amazing than anything captain

And I'd say getting blown out of a flying air craft carrier, and dragging yourself back inside while being shot at just in time to save the life of a teammate is also impressive. As is getting a shot to the abdomen and continuing to press on the fight, all the while coming up with effective strategies on the fly that manages to utilize the powers and talents of his teammates to the best of their effectiveness.

He went toe to toe with Loki for about 1 minute. Loki actually knocked Cap to the ground and was about to smash his skull in. Luckily Iron Man showed up.

It's still impressive. A man going up against a God- TWO Gods- and managing to walk away from the fight? Yeah, I'd say that's pretty impressive.

Also, did you catch the bit about Loki WANTING to be captured?

I never said powerful. I said amazing. That was more of an important single move that any single move Cap did in battle.

To you. I- and others- happen to feel that Cap pulled off a lot of impressive moves in all his battles. Not sure, though, why Hawkeye shooting an arrow somehow is more impressive than Cap throwing his shield.

When I was speaking about Black Widow and Hawkeye I wasn't talking about power levels, but the fact that they did more than he did in this battle. You misunderstand.

No, I get it. But the point still stands. Nothing you point out about Hawkeye or Black Widow is inherently special to THEM. They just happened to get lucky. Hawkeye may have dismounted Loki, but it was the Hulk who took him down. Black Widow may have stopped the machine, but it wasn't due to her technical knowledge or any powerset SHE had. It was the work of someone else, she just happened to be in the right place at the right time. It really could have been anyone who did that.

Compare that to Cap- there was no one really in that final battle who could have reasonably stepped up and rallied the heroes with his various battle plans. Widow might have gotten up to the top of the tower, but she still needed Cap and Iron Man and the Doctor's help to accomplish HER mission.

I just think you're being way too hard on Cap and trying to overlook the places where he did shine.

[RDMacQ]

I'm speaking to the scene where Thor helps him up and another scene before this when he's knocked down. They distinctly show Cap holding his side and looking very morose.

Yeah. There was a reason for that.

HE WAS JUST SHOT WITH A @#$%ING LASER! That wasn't being "morose." That was him being in @#$%ing PAIN!

Also, did you not see the part right after where Thor asked if he was alright, and Cap just brushed it off with a witty remark?

Seriously, if you are trying to use the scene where Cap gets injured as an example of him "looking downtrodden and morose," then you're looking for stuff to criticize movie Cap about.

[nosocialize100]

Yeah. There was a reason for that.

HE WAS JUST SHOT WITH A @#$%ING LASER! That wasn't being "morose." That was him being in @#$%ing PAIN!

Also, did you not see the part right after where Thor asked if he was alright, and Cap just brushed it off with a witty remark?

Yes and Thor and Hulk and Iron Man were shot repeatedly proving my point. He brushed it off sure, but he didn't look none to happy. He certainly wasn't grinning.

Look, I'm not saying Captain America is weak, just saying in comparison he's obviously the weaker. No need to get so bent out of shape. And my point about Hawkeye and Black Widow isn't that they are stronger, it's just interesting Whedon had them doing more important things. Of course this is an opinion.

I think since this is the team gelling for the first time we're not getting a ton of Cap leading, which is why he can pull his weight on this team at all. I suspect we'll see a ton more of this leadership in the next film.

[Jabare]

Are you guys arguing if Cap is as strong as Thor and Ironman?

[RDMacQ]

Yes and Thor and Hulk and Iron Man were shot repeatedly proving my point. He brushed it off sure, but he didn't look none to happy. He certainly wasn't grinning.

Cap got shot point blank.

And yes, he was grinning. Right afterwards, in fact.

Look, I'm not saying Captain America is weak, just saying in comparison he's obviously the weaker. No need to get so bent out of shape. And my point about Hawkeye and Black Widow isn't that they are stronger, it's just interesting Whedon had them doing more important things. Of course this is an opinion.

And what I'm saying is that you are going out of your way- to quite frankly, ridiculous degrees- to downplay the character. It makes me wonder WHY you would need to do this. If you don't like movie Cap, you don't have to like movie Cap. But you don't have to frame it as if he somehow made no accomplishments or didn't have any impressive moments on his own.

In short, if the thing you didn't like doesn't exist, then why are you upset?

I think since this is the team gelling for the first time we're not getting a ton of Cap leading, which is why he can pull his weight on this team at all. I suspect we'll see a ton more of this leadership in the next film.

See, this right here- this is what I'm talking about.

We got a whole HELL of a lot of Cap leading here. Two specific scenes for example- first, right at the start of the big fight where he gives the Avengers their orders, and when he tells the cops how to evacuate the civilians.

I'm not saying everyone HAS to like the film. But if DO have problems with it, I don't think it's too much to ask that they are REAL problems and not imagined ones that someone made up. Criticizing Cap for being "morose and downbeat" after getting SHOT and not "grinning" afterwards (Which he actually DID!) is looking for something to complain about. Because Cap's not the only one who got wounded, but you're not criticizing any other character for engaging in literally the same actions.

[RDMacQ]

Are you guys arguing if Cap is as strong as Thor and Ironman?

No, I'm trying to understand how Cap getting shot and not being happy about it somehow means he was morose and downbeat for the entire movie.

[Havok83]

Are you referring to his leadership? Aside from throwing his shield, which I view as hand to hand combat, he didn't do much else.

He delegated in the final battle. Thats when and where he emerged as a leader for the group

[Jabare]

I don't get people harping on Cap. He was great in this movie. Gave out a great battle strategy and was doing his best throughout the whole movie.

[Ben K.]

Cap was portrayed as he should be at this stage. Every joe in the street thinks he's a propaganda relic with no knowledge of the secret WW2 war. Iron man trolls him but defers to his maturity in the end even if Stark is technically smarter and more powerful. Thor seems to offer him a time-out after he gets shot presuming a mere mortal, yet Cap still fights (and quips) on. In this universe, Cap should grow as an icon, not be considered the best of the best after First Avenger which impresses upon us nobody knows what he did.

[Ian Pressman]

I wanted far far less Black Widow. Give me some real Avenger women next time, the kind with awesome powers. Other than that, I loved the movie.

It takes more than superpowers to be interesting.

[listenuscrewheads]

Pretty good new interview with Whedon, talking about his whole career, someone over at aicn posted the link:

http://www.gq.com/entertainment/movi...#ixzz1tihTT3on

[Gordon Smith]

So, saw the movie twice, loved it without reservation. That said, I was left wondering about two things.

A: the reference to Budapest. Black Widow referred to 'Budapest'' as being the scene of a very ugly battle where she and Hawkeye had been present. I wonder if she was referring to the failed Hungarian revolution of 1956 when an uprising was brutally put down by Soviet forces. I can see the unaging Natasha having been present at that scene, but Hawkeye? That would imply his history in the movie-verse is radically different from the comics version.

B: As far as I could tell, the Avengers didn't seem to have a problem killing their opponents whether alien or human. Anyone have an opinion on that?

[nosocialize100]

In short, if the thing you didn't like doesn't exist, then why are you upset?

We got a whole HELL of a lot of Cap leading here. Two specific scenes for example- first, right at the start of the big fight where he gives the Avengers their orders, and when he tells the cops how to evacuate the civilians.

I'm not saying everyone HAS to like the film. But if DO have problems with it, I don't think it's too much to ask that they are REAL problems and not imagined ones that someone made up. Criticizing Cap for being "morose and downbeat" after getting SHOT and not "grinning" afterwards (Which he actually DID!) is looking for something to complain about. Because Cap's not the only one who got wounded, but you're not criticizing any other character for engaging in literally the same actions.

Please don't say my thoughts are imagined. And again you're misunderstanding me. I loved the film. I'm not "making up" things either. I think, based on the filmmakers choices either based on shots used or editing they've portrayed Captain America in a weaker light then they needed to.

I'm also not complaining. I'm making points. If I was complaining I would be whining and saying they should have done it differently. I'm simply striking up a conversation about an observation I made. If you disagree with my thoughts that's fine. But please don't tell me I'm inventing things. That insinuates my points are invalid because they aren't real. Differences in opinion must come up on the boards quite a bit so I'm unclear why you're denigrated my thoughts as you are.

As far as getting a "whole HELL of a lot of Cap leading." How can you actually believe this? He leads for the last 15 minutes in a movie that's 2 hours and 20 minutes. My point is he didn't lead for a huge chunk because this movie was building the team. That's not Cap's fault, it's an observation based on the plot and story of this film. My point again, is that we'll get a lot more, from beginning to end now that the story is set up. I'm actually saying that's a good thing for the sequel. Yet you take it as if I'm whining and complaining. You're taking all of this much to personally.

[nosocialize100]

No, I'm trying to understand how Cap getting shot and not being happy about it somehow means he was morose and downbeat for the entire movie.

You are clearly misconstruing my words. I never said "the entire movie." Are you upset? I can't understand how you can misunderstand me so greatly.