Avengers Movie *Spoilers*

[OrigamiSuperNova]

I loved this movie, Hulk did have some brilliant comedy moments 'Puny God'
All the heroes had something going on, and I can see how it helps Thor now having the ability to come back to Earth for Thor 2,
slightly scared they're going to put spidey in the next one....
meep meep.
did anyone else notice the multiple blonde waitress shots and her drooling over Capt America in the thanks voxpops? Think she'll be in his next movie??
AH wish I could see this again.

[LeonardEugenius]

I've never been a fan of Coulson, and I don't see what he adds to the movies or comics at all. I thought his death being incentive was a really weak plot point. No one particularly likes him in any of the other movies. I thought the idea that they all cared about his dying that much to be really forced.

[RohanRiderX]

10 bucks says its an lmd, we never saw the medical crew show up, and neither did the team , hell he comes back in a sequal in a blaze of glory the team will be shovcked and happy, in a world where a guy can be a capsicle for 70 years and you cant destinguish from magic and science its possible

[The Once And Forever]

I've never been a fan of Coulson, and I don't see what he adds to the movies or comics at all. I thought his death being incentive was a really weak plot point. No one particularly likes him in any of the other movies. I thought the idea that they all cared about his dying that much to be really forced.

Thor showed him respect before he went back to Asgard in Thor.

Cap was upset because Coulson idolized him, and he was a soldier.

Stark hadn't really dealt with death like that. Those three are the heart of the Avengers, and were also the three who most needed to pull together, Banner was in from the beginning, as was Widow, and Hawkeye just needed to get unplugged from Loki's mind control. It wasn't so much that they all needed to care, it just needed to be something that affected the dissent amongst them.

[Jim Thompson]

This movie was even better the second time. Just AWESOME!

[LexValentine]

I kind of wondered whether they might keep his brain-patterns alive to be used in a version of the Vision. But who knows? I read somewhere that Joss told the actor he'd be back, but that could mean anything.

I was thinking the exact same thing.

[Brandon McKinnis]

I could totally see them having dead Coulson be an LMD. Especially since Stark named dropped them early on in the film.

[CHOX]

About LMDs? I thought for sure Fury was an LMD when he was shot in the beginning. Glad to hear people talking about Widow. I was afraid her Russian background wouldn't be touched upon. Boy was I wrong! They even got a "boze moi" in there. Time for a Widow/Cosmo team up film!

[Corey W]

I thought they did a great job with 'Tasha, Clint and Cap (except for Cap's costume, which was awful).

'Tasha stole almost every scene she was in and was the only person all movie to steal a scene from Ruffalo (when she sold the terror of being in an enclosed space for a Hulk transformation without selling out her role as the fearless Black Widow--i.e. I was scared for her, but she was not overly scared for herself).

Clint looked cool, and I liked his eye-in-the-sky role.

Cap was sold as the field-leader of the team.

Frankly, the fact that the three of them did not look useless next to the super-genius/Hulk, super-genius/super-weapon, and demi-god was an impressive feat for the movie goers since they didn't make IM, Hulk or Thor look weak to make the normals look good.

[Ian Pressman]

Just came back from an afternoon showing. Packed house, applause in the theatre, that kind of thing. Very fun time at the movies, nearly stroked out when Loki tried to give a villainous denouncement to the Hulk. A little voice in my head went "Dude, stop talking, stop talking, stop talking, stop talking--ohhhhhhh shit. Should have stopped talking, man."

My favorite Superhero movie ever. Completely buries the X-franchise so far as executing a team based movie goes. It wasn't Iron Man and the Avengers, or Thor and the Avengers, or Scarlett Johansan's incredible body and the Avengers. Gonna go see it again tonight just because.

[Rheged]

The kneejerk, memetic thinking is that no one will buy wooks about women, but I think that says there are people who buy superhero comics who don't mind reading about women in the title roles, when they are marketed correctly. This is something DC seems to have figured out, but not Marvel. Even so, Black Widow has always sold better in solo projects than Hawkeye, across the past decade. I don't think the new Hawkeye book will be a sales success, but I think they should try, and they are trying smart, with a name creative team and after a concentrated push making use of the movie exposure. I think they'd have about the same amount of success with Black Widow, who as I've said, has usually sold a bit better than him, despite her gender…

But I don't think it's a biased thing to be surprised to see him getting the big 616 over Natasha. Like I said before, Natasha consistently sells a bit better in a solo, so that's not a bias thing. I think Black Widow's solo concept, "world's best spy", tends to lend itself easier to solo stories than Clint's "world's greatest archer" thing.

Meanwhile, Black Widow got more screen time and character development, but it was also stuff that is pretty true to her 616 stories.

And again, I don't think it should be either/or, I am glad they're promoting Hawkeye, I really like Hawkeye. But Marvel's kind of made it either/or, it seems.

Pretty much all of THIS. If Marvel wanted new readers from the movie, which they claim happens, they'd have been far better off pushing Black Widow, since her movie appearance was much greater. The smartest thing, IMO, would have been as you said, not make it an either / or situation, and push BOTH Black Widow and Hawkeye equally. But they didn't do that.

Just want to chime in that the second time I saw this there were several kids in the audience pointing out all the characters -- even Hawkeye. I think since Hawkeye had the weakest showing in the movie (which isn't a slight, it's just that he did compared to the rest) it makes sense to make him stronger in the comics. Black Widow was portrayed very well, and I'm sure she'll catch her niche female audience. But in terms of popularity, I heard more boys yelling about Hawkeye because he's an archer (which drew me to him as a kid as well) than Widow.

Now I'd like to see how Marvel capitalizes on this movie. If I had a kid I'd certainly buy them comics to read if they liked The Avengers movie. Much better than playing video games all day.

I'm sorry, I don't follow this statement at all. You want Marvel to capitalize on the movie, but it makes sense to you for them to do so by picking the character with the weakest showing in the movie?

Whedon will be happy to know that Buffy only appealed to a "niche female audience." Maybe in your theatre you heard more _boys_ yelling about Hawkeye, but in my theatre, I heard folks of both genders yelling about Black Widow. I had my non-comic book girl friends talk about Black Widow and how awesome she was. And if Marvel IS interested in getting new readers, why wouldn't it want to appeal to 50% of the population, your 'niche female audience' that most folks here seem to think don't buy comics? Marvel's already got plenty of boys in their audience.

Have to disagree with the perspective on Hawkeye's "weak" showing. Let's take into account that he almost brought down the Helcarrier with an almost impossible shot, the man held is on with the Chitauri agents. I don't know why people keep saying he had a weak showing. How exactly powerful do you think Clint Barton is? The Ultimate universe Hawkeye, IMO, is waaaay more lethal (as shown in the movie) then the 616 guy. Ultimate Hawkeye is a badass in the comic books and in the movie. While his story wasn't looked into that much I really enjoyed EVERY scene he was in. His ability to calculate and give overwatch and situational reports from perched positions was as awesome as Cap's tactical acumen. I thought every character in the group lived up fully to their comic counterpart. That Hawekey in the movie should have been what Marel originally went with instead of a Green Arrow want to be. I like him being a black ops legend that's an archer.

It's not about his feats -- I actually think feat wise he was much stronger than the 616 character. It's about how much movie time he got, how much character work was done with him, the positive significance of his role, and who the audience reacted positively to. For half the movie, he was Loki's mind controlled stooge -- that certainly didn't help.

[NamorsTrident]

But he actually is in way more books than she is? The only book Natasha's been in that Clint hasn't is Winter Soldier, and that's not a new thing for her, just a continuation of the role she had in Captain America since Civil War, so of course people don't find it forced. Meanwhile, Clint has this upcoming ongoing, Avengers Solo, the main Avengers title, Avengers Academy, New Avengers pretty regularly, and Captain America and Hawkeye. These are all books Clint is in that Natasha's not in. Meanwhile, Secret Avengers should be Natasha's flagship title, since it's the main team she's on, and Clint appears more in it— the other books that star them both they basically get equal screentime. Granted, Natasha does probably appear in more books than any other female character; I don't think she's not being pushed at all. But they've obviously been pushing Hawkeye more. Axel Alonso has talked in multiple interviews about how he's trying to make Clint a character to watch in 616. I think that's smart of him, considering Clint's profile is probably higher now than it's ever been. He doesn't talk about Black Widow the same way, they are not promoting her the same way.

I'm not arguing that Hawkeye has more appearances. However, I am saying that Black Widow isn't that far behind him. It also seems that some think that Black Widow deserves the "push" more but not only is that not fair to Hawkeye and his fans it's a inaccurate and bias assumption.

Like I said before Hawkeye has been a staple on the Avengers almost as long as they have been formed. The character is an easy fit for all the teams he's on. Expecting Equal treatment when every character is different form another doesn't work. The Black Widow and Hawkeye aren't equal. That doesn't mean that Hawkeye is better than Widow he just works better in certain situations than she does and vise versa. Comparatively even though Widows books might(I would like to actually see the figures) sell better than Hawkeye's books, Hawkeye has had longer continual runs in print than she has through being a staple Avenger. Hawkeye is and has been a large part of the reasons why early day Avengers continued to sell. Hawkeye profile, regardless of the films, is higher in the comic shop than the Widows. It makes sense for Marvel to want to have an on going with him and try everything they can to keep it going. To do so they put him on more Avenger teams, all of which he naturally fits on. Natasha on the other had would have a harder time "working" in every team without betraying her character.

In August we are are getting Three new solo titles Hawkeye, Gambit, and Ms. Marvel. That's three titles that marvel is throwing to the wall and hoping that they stick with the fans and on the shelves. To me it seems as if Marvel is slowly try our and build up solo titles hopefully adding more as they move on. Which is a good plan. Hawkeye got pulled this time more than likely Natasha will be next and even if she isn't Marvel's "pushing" characters who will get solo's is a lot better than dropping them in a solo and hoping that it sells.

[Ian Pressman]

I've never been a fan of Coulson, and I don't see what he adds to the movies or comics at all. I thought his death being incentive was a really weak plot point. No one particularly likes him in any of the other movies. I thought the idea that they all cared about his dying that much to be really forced.

And that is why it seemed forced to you. For a less contemporary version, imagine this was the comics and Loki had just gutted Rick Jones. 'No one particularly liking him' doesn't fly as motivation to discount his death. What kind of a self-absorbed ass wouldn't be affected by the loss of a close colleague? That kind of callous reaction wouldn't have flown with the audience. Stark, Natasha, Clint, and Fury knew him for years, and Thor in particular befriended him in Arizona. Cap never likes losing a fellow soldier anyway. It all was very organically done.

[gnessa14]

I was thinking that too. Thor did seem panicked in that cage when it was falling. According to physics and terminal velocity, I think the effects of the fall would be the same whether he stayed in the cage or escaped at the last moment like he did, but I'm ignoring all of that because, you know, comic movie.

What that will kill Thor is force of the impact when the cage hits the ground and it's directly proportional to the height. Let's say the total mass of the cage+Thor is 1000lbs (453kg), when he breaks out of the cage, his velocity does increase a little but the distance of falling is a lot less than 30,000ft (9144m) so he doesn't hit the ground as hard.

Average impact force x Distance traveled after after the impact = Change in kinetic energy.
F = 1/2*m*v^2/d = 1/2*m*(2*g*h)/d = 1/2*453*(2*9.8*9144)/1= 40 million Newton

1 Newton is about the force to keep a small apple from falling off so.... 40 million of that force. I think he dropped for less than 20 feet when he escaped which is a huge difference from 30,000ft.

You can read the following site to see how the equation is derived and plug in some numbers to get your result.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/flobi.html

[Hrist]

I'm not arguing that Hawkeye has more appearances. However, I am saying that Black Widow isn't that far behind him. It also seems that some think that Black Widow deserves the "push" more but not only is that not fair to Hawkeye and his fans it's a inaccurate and bias assumption.

I think the most "biased" thing people are saying is that if they are pushing characters based on the movie then Natasha had a bigger part in the movie. ??? which is really not more biased than anything you've said.

Like I said before Hawkeye has been a staple on the Avengers almost as long as they have been formed. The character is an easy fit for all the teams he's on. Expecting Equal treatment when every character is different form another doesn't work. The Black Widow and Hawkeye aren't equal. That doesn't mean that Hawkeye is better than Widow he just works better in certain situations than she does and vise versa. Comparatively even though Widows books might(I would like to actually see the figures) sell better than Hawkeye's books, Hawkeye has had longer continual runs in print than she has through being a staple Avenger. Hawkeye is and has been a large part of the reasons why early day Avengers continued to sell. Hawkeye profile, regardless of the films, is higher in the comic shop than the Widows. It makes sense for Marvel to want to have an on going with him and try everything they can to keep it going. To do so they put him on more Avenger teams, all of which he naturally fits on. Natasha on the other had would have a harder time "working" in every team without betraying her character.

I agree Clint is a bigger deal as an Avenger, I don't think he's really had necessarily longer continuous runs or higher profile as a character. Brubaker's Captain America and Bendis's Daredevil are really widely considered the top two Marvel runs of the past decade, or at least they are up there, Natasha had significant roles in both, and I think that's a bigger contributor to current comic book relevancy than membership in the Kooky Quartet. The "it makes sense for Clint to be in a bunch of team books" would make more sense if he wasn't also the one getting all the solo stuff, too, and if he wasn't getting pushed in Secret Avengers over Natasha, because Natasha makes a lot more sense on the espionage Avenger book than he does, no? Even when there are opportunities where it might make more sense to use Natasha, they use Clint instead. The only thing they haven't done is have Clint date Bucky.

Anyway, here are some sales figures, since you asked!! As you might remember both characters got a book that launched as part of the Heroic Age.

55 Black Widow 1 $3.99 Marvel 32,807
73 Hawkeye & Mockingbird 1 $3.99 Marvel 27,552

They were both axed pretty quickly, but Natasha got two more issues and still was selling a bit better at the end of it.

125 Black Widow 8 $2.99 Marvel 14,856
130 Hawkeye & Mockingbird 6 $2.99 Marvel 14,217

Since both books were cancelled, Natasha's gotten a one-shot tied into Fear Itself and Clint's gotten a miniseries marketed under the Avengers branding.

112 Fear Itself Black Widow 1 $3.99 Marvel 21,340
127 Avengers Solo 1 $3.99 Marvel 18,427

Before Iron Man 2 came out, Marvel published a 4-issue miniseries that featured Natasha's origins, so there would be an easy trade to direct new readers to come movietime. Before Thor came out, they did the same for Clint.

64 Black Widow Deadly Origin 1 $3.99 Marvel 29,338
127 Hawkeye: Blind Spot 1 $2.99 Marvel 14,235

Previously, Natasha's had minis that launched in 1999, 2000, and 2004. Clint had an ongoing title that launched in 2003.

19 Black Widow 1 $2.99 Marvel 67,791
40 Black Widow Breakdown 1 $2.99 Marvel 39,491
63 Hawkeye 1 $2.99 Marvel 35,265
58 Black Widow 1 $2.99 Marvel 38,650

You have to see that the Clint doesn't look like the runaway sales victor here, right?

In August we are are getting Three new solo titles Hawkeye, Gambit, and Ms. Marvel. That's three titles that marvel is throwing to the wall and hoping that they stick with the fans and on the shelves. To me it seems as if Marvel is slowly try our and build up solo titles hopefully adding more as they move on. Which is a good plan. Hawkeye got pulled this time more than likely Natasha will be next and even if she isn't Marvel's "pushing" characters who will get solo's is a lot better than dropping them in a solo and hoping that it sells.

I don't understand what you're trying to say here. I think Marvel is being very smart about pushing Hawkeye, I wish they would be just as smart about pushing Natasha, timing is a huge deal because all the movie promotion is only going to last so long. I'm not advocating they just give random characters a solo ongoing and cross their fingers, I think books need to be smartly conceived with clear hooks and a clear relevance to the Marvel U. But I think there's no reason the can or should choose to do that with Hawkeye and not also with Black Widow, especially when the impetus for pushing Hawkeye is clearly the Avengers movie, which Black Widow is fantastic in. (I'd understand that more if Natasha's role in the film was really minor compared to Clint's.) But they don't even seem to be leading up to a possible mini or whatever for her, they're not really building her up in the books she is in, the way Secret Avengers or CA&H is with Clint.