manga art style in comic books

[mojojo1984]

hello everyone,
it's me again.i know this thread is about anime.but i read something that manga is a very popular art style in comic books.i know dc comic's teen titans go! and Marvel's Mangaverse were drawn in manga style i was hoping anyone knew any more?
thank you for your time.
-Joe:)

[The Xenos]

...

Well, how can I not show up?

See, my constant complaint is that THERE IS NO 'MANGA STYLE'. I keep making it on this forum and others and I'm sure fans of the idea of 'manga style' are sick of me.

To me, it's just an over genarlization of art styles. I believe if you look at actual manga artists, you'll see a wide variety of styles. I think it's unfair to label anyone's art style as just 'manga style'.

I keep saying to look at Berserk vs Azumanga Daioh, Crying Freeman vs Bleach, Blame! vs One Piece. They are very different.



Are there similarities? Yes. Yet I also seem similarities to American comics. Or European comics. Though no one seems to buy any of those, dammit. Oh and let's just ignore South America. Let's call it all manga and bow down to Japan. Bah.

Oh and let's not forget Korean and Chinese comics. Korean ones are similar enough to Japanese that Tokyopop and some can call Korean comics 'manga'. If you know anything about history or the socio-political issues between the two counties, you should know how wrong that is. Koreans have their own title. 'Manhua'. Chinese comics have a similar name which I forget. Plus the Chinese ones in America are large and in color and thus more expense. So, relatively, no one buys them.

Manga is cheap. I mean that in a good way. It's cheap to publish, or rather reprint, manga in America, so it sells better. There you go. That's why I think manga outsells American comics or comics from anywhere else.

Another annoaynce is when manga is used as a published format, a certain size and price. That is also false. Manga in Japan is published in multiple formats. It's first published in anthologies and then collected in volumes in a smaller format for each series. That collected format is called 'takubon' or whatever your prefered spelling is. Major publishers like Tokyopop want you to ignore this an just call anything, including American made books, 'manga'. I don't buy that.

To me, what makes most sense is: Manga = Comics published in Japan. Anything else is a comic book or graphic novel whose artist is inspired by manga. They and their art are manga influenced. And there is NOTHING wrong with that. Some of the manga influenced graphic novels Tokyopop are fantastic.

Plus let's not forget that manga artist from Japan have worked for American companies. Now, as far as I remember, all the Mangaverse books were by American artists. Yet Marvel has had Tsutomu Nihei do a Wolverine comic book, Snikt!. Kia Asamiya worked on regular issues of Uncanny X-Men (though too bad the story somewhat stunk).

He also did a Batman book published in Japan under license from DC. Later it was published in America. Now as the artist is Japanese and it was first published there, I would call that manga. Ryoichi Ikegami did a Spider-man manga in Japan under license from Marvel in the 70s. Of course now we have a Witchblade manga and anime in Japan.

[mathew101281]

I think Manga has two meanings.

1. Comics from Japan.

2. Comics inspired by Japanese comics


Manga to me is an art movement like Impressionism.

[Yun Lao]

Oh and let's not forget Korean and Chinese comics. Korean ones are similar enough to Japanese that Tokyopop and some can call Korean comics 'manga'. If you know anything about history or the socio-political issues between the two counties, you should know how wrong that is. Koreans have their own title. 'Manhua'. Chinese comics have a similar name which I forget.

I believe the Chinese ones are known as "Manwha" but I could be mistaken.

As for my opinion on this, I believe that manga is truely just Japanese comics. American comics may be inspired by them, but until I find myself reading them from left to right and in novel-sized volumes, they're still just comics.

[Melchior]

*reads Xenos's reply, looks at picture.*

What's the second from the right picture, next to the Battle Angel Alita at the end? I just cannot place it.

Mostly, I agree what Xenos says. Though I thought Chinese is manhua, with Korean being manwha. Though, after an interesting argument in "Dramacon", I am half-tempted to call all comics and manga "whimsical drawings".

[KameTen]

Its all just comic books. Whether it was created in Japan, Korea, Africa, or any place in the world, if it follows the format of a comic book, then it is a comic book. Terms like "manga" only serve to separate comic book fans into unnecessary fandom factions", and in the worst case, promote a superiority complex within these factions that is undeserved and unneeded.

Art styles vary from place to place, but a comic book will always be a comic book. Unless its a graphic novel or trade paperback, but thats semantics:p

[mojojo1984]

thanks everyone,
the book also says realism art style is also big in comic books today. didn't Tsutomu Nihei also did the artwork for the halo graphic novel. that looks more realism then manga style since he does mangas too.
-Joe:)

[Smokeyjay]

*reads Xenos's reply, looks at picture.*

What's the second from the right picture, next to the Battle Angel Alita at the end? I just cannot place it.

Mostly, I agree what Xenos says. Though I thought Chinese is manhua, with Korean being manwha. Though, after an interesting argument in "Dramacon", I am half-tempted to call all comics and manga "whimsical drawings".

Geez I thought I knew but now I don't. Thats going to annoy me now.

It looks familiar but at the same time I know I haven't read it before. The art style however.

[Alex L]

*reads Xenos's reply, looks at picture.*

What's the second from the right picture, next to the Battle Angel Alita at the end? I just cannot place it.

Mostly, I agree what Xenos says. Though I thought Chinese is manhua, with Korean being manwha. Though, after an interesting argument in "Dramacon", I am half-tempted to call all comics and manga "whimsical drawings".

Comics, as defined by Scott McCloud:

Juxtaposed pictorial and other images in deliberate sequence intended to convey information and/or to produce an aesthetic response in the viewer.

:)

[The Xenos]

I think Manga has two meanings.

1. Comics from Japan.

2. Comics inspired by Japanese comics


Manga to me is an art movement like Impressionism.

Well, I think it does have both those meanings. I disagree with the second one greatly. I do ackknowage many people belive in the second one. I just don't subscribe to and am against that school of thought myself.

Funny you should mention Impressionism. There was and article in the Boston Phoenix about an exhibit of American Impressionists. I wrote down a blog entry about it one day I was bored working security at a dorm, but haven't typed it up yet. The story commented about how the author and others thought American impressionists just were pale imitations of the French artists that started the movement. The critic said that the impressionists were fans of the French movement, but really didn't understand the real meaning and mechanics of it. One funny story even told how scores of American artists went to France, without being able to speak French or speak it well, and ended up in a sort of ethnic ghetto together while trying to learn from the French artists they were fans of.

I couldn't help but think of how similar it was to my complaints about American 'manga' artists. That's my biggest fear, that American artists become so locked in on making 'manga' that they just forget to make good art and story. I fear they look at manga and only see the surface and don't get what really makes it tick. I also feel that only looking at one country for an art style or how to make 'comics' is a troublesome mistake. Hell, even looking at one storytelling medium like comics for inspiration is a mistake.

I myself am looking forward to making comics / webcomics / graphic novels / whatever. I can't really draw, but I can write and maybe even layout panels dependings on the artist's preference. I would definately say I'm influenced by manga. Yet I wouldn't dare try to take that word from Japanese culture and apply it to my work here in America. I would feel like a cultural thief. I feel I have too much pride and love for my country, the area of my country even (Lovecraft county basically), to call my work by a Japanese name. Plus, as much as I enjoy manga, I have too many influcnes outside of it to just call my work by that one name.

*reads Xenos's reply, looks at picture.*

What's the second from the right picture, next to the Battle Angel Alita at the end? I just cannot place it.

Heh. That's a random image from like the 8th chapter of the new Tsutomu Nihei (Blame!) manga Abara. It's just coming out in Japan. I thought it was an awesome character, so I had cut out the image. I randomly threw it in there as an example of Nihei's rather different style. I have yet to find a copy of it in English, though I know one or two groups are working on it.

His big hit Blame! is still not fully published in the US, so I can only imagine when this one will get here. There's also the one volume Noise which may be set in the same universe, centuries before. Plus there's the one volume Biomega

Nihei is one reason I hate the idea of a 'manga style'. I love his art because it's far from the sterotype. It almost reminds me more of European art like by Moebius or the art of Metabarons which is a European comic by Argentinian artist Juan Gimenez. Though I got into Metabarons after I read Blame!.

Mostly, I agree what Xenos says. Though I thought Chinese is manhua, with Korean being manwha. Though, after an interesting argument in "Dramacon", I am half-tempted to call all comics and manga "whimsical drawings".

I keep hearing about Dramacon,but never have been compelled to pick it up. I dunno. I like Genshiken (anime and most of the manga) and have seen some Comic Party, but I have seen enough drama at US cons that I don't really want to read a comic about it.

[The Xenos]

Its all just comic books. Whether it was created in Japan, Korea, Africa, or any place in the world, if it follows the format of a comic book, then it is a comic book. Terms like "manga" only serve to separate comic book fans into unnecessary fandom factions", and in the worst case, promote a superiority complex within these factions that is undeserved and unneeded.

Art styles vary from place to place, but a comic book will always be a comic book. Unless its a graphic novel or trade paperback, but thats semantics:p

I somewhat agree. To me, we should respect comics 'created in Japan, Korea, Africa, or any place in the world' by calling them by their names. That's why I like calling Japanese comics 'manga'. That's why I think it's insulting calling Korean books by the same name. To me, it's a label to indicate where the book came from, in repsect to the author's and publication's nation of origin.

As for graphic 'novel or trade paperback', that's more teminology of publishing format. Recently, I've seen some American graphic novels just slapped as 'manga', particularly by Tokyopop. Great. Now manga isn't just comics from Japan, it's not even just an art style, it's also a publishing format! Next, I predict 'manga' will become a floor polish and a dessert topping. It's pretty insane what a cheap buzzword it's become instead of just being a respectful term for Japanese comics.

The thing that gets me, is that manga isn't always published in this American 'manga' format that Tokyopop and others sell. In Japan, they have a name for it, 'takubon'. That's because manga is also often published in larger format anthologies on crappy paper. It really is like comic book issues and trade paperbacks. Yet no one wants to ackowlage on a publishing level this and only Viz is even attempting anthologies.

Comics, as defined by Scott McCloud:

Juxtaposed pictorial and other images in deliberate sequence intended to convey information and/or to produce an aesthetic response in the viewer.

:)

He also uses the term 'squential art', which he got from Will Eisner, who basically is a key creator who helped build comics to what they are today. I often compare him to Tezuka. I call comics 'The House that Eisner Built' and I call manga 'The House that Tezuka Built'. I love both and I think everyone should visit them both for inspiration. Yet today, I think you should call things from where they are published, not from where they are inspired from.

[Alex L]

The thing that gets me, is that manga isn't always published in this American 'manga' format that Tokyopop and others sell. In Japan, they have a name for it, 'takubon'. That's because manga is also often published in larger format anthologies on crappy paper. It really is like comic book issues and trade paperbacks. Yet no one wants to ackowlage on a publishing level this and only Viz is even attempting anthologies..

Viz' Shonen Jump isn't even quite like Shounen Jump in Japan.

Because many of the stories are collected in tankubon, like you said, the weekly Japanese SJ is printed on what's essentially Yellow Pages-quality paper and sold dirt-cheap. This allows them better market penetration -- if it only costs a buck or two, no reason to not buy it for your kid, really.

Too bad VIz doesn't have the breadth of titles to put out a full Japanese-style SJ.

[KameTen]

I somewhat agree. To me, we should respect comics 'created in Japan, Korea, Africa, or any place in the world' by calling them by their names. That's why I like calling Japanese comics 'manga'. That's why I think it's insulting calling Korean books by the same name. To me, it's a label to indicate where the book came from, in repsect to the author's and publication's nation of origin.

As for graphic 'novel or trade paperback', that's more teminology of publishing format. Recently, I've seen some American graphic novels just slapped as 'manga', particularly by Tokyopop. Great. Now manga isn't just comics from Japan, it's not even just an art style, it's also a publishing format! Next, I predict 'manga' will become a floor polish and a dessert topping. It's pretty insane what a cheap buzzword it's become instead of just being a respectful term for Japanese comics.

The thing that gets me, is that manga isn't always published in this American 'manga' format that Tokyopop and others sell. In Japan, they have a name for it, 'takubon'. That's because manga is also often published in larger format anthologies on crappy paper. It really is like comic book issues and trade paperbacks. Yet no one wants to ackowlage on a publishing level this and only Viz is even attempting anthologies.

It's just that the word "manga" means comic book in Japan, and I am a bit tired of that word being abused by American fans to separate themselves from other comic book readers.

That, and I'm rebelling against "Otaku-isms", and what better way go about it then to reject one of the biggest ones. Remember, people who say "baka" should be ignored and gently patted on the head in pity. ;)

[The Xenos]

Well, I must confess when I was younger and didn't know better, I used to think there was a 'manga style'. At the time it was a buzz word in comics... and no one bought actual manga as much as they did manga styled comics like that Darkminds by Pat Lee (which, upon rereading, is utter crap) or Joe Mad's Battlechasers or Adam Warren's art (though I still like this style).

Then I actually started exploring actual manga and realized what utter rubbish the hype over the 'manga style' was. Maybe you could connect specific US artists to specific manga artists, but beyond that it's overgeneralizing.

Oh and I too confess I used to go around and use 'baka'. Though it did get tired. Plus I had just gotten into anime with Evangleion. It did seem to be Asuka's favorite word, especially around Shinji. I like to day that I learned the Japanese words for 'stupid' and 'father' from Evangelion. "Nani?" or "What?" also were tossed around. Sometimes 'Just a minute.' too.

Also, the very word Otaku is a problem for me. It's like a racial slur again geeks, but has also been adopted by them, somewhat like 'the n-word' in hip hop culture. Yet now you have a bunch of spoiled white kids who want to use that same word and don't really understand it or its history. They don't know about the otaku child muderer that popularized the term. They also seem to think it pertains only to anime, when, if you look at its history and useage in Japan, it is a general term that applies to many geekdoms. You have military otaku to sports otaku to anime otaku to model otaku and so on.

As for Shonen Jump, you are right. The American one differs greatly from the Japanese one. I was mainly trying to show how manga doesn't just appear just a small collected books that are about the size of regular novels and are priced at $10. Also, the Japanese one is also one of the best selling comics in the world.

[Ayo]

"Manga" is the Japanese word for "comics."

That is all.