Nevermind, my idea sucked.
Nevermind, my idea sucked.
Last edited by swinebread; 01-03-2007 at 11:53 PM.
Have you read She-Hulk? Yes, it relies maybe overmuch on insider humour, but really, calling it a rip-off of Byrne's run?
Byrne traded in constant fourth wall breaking, having the hero act as his puppet, and was, if anything a rip on the 'weirdness magnet' era of Blue Devil. The humour was forced onto the title constantly, with She-Hulk serving chiefly as a McGuffin to justify all the bizarre crap Byrne was jamming in in lieu of any real comedy.
One of the things I like about Slott's work, which I despise about Giffen and DeMatteis' JL titles is that characters remain constant, and, while situations arise which may appear ludicrous, they occur naturally as a result of living in a place as odd as the Marvel Universe.
Agent X was hilarious, but alas, its career was tragically cut short.
As for Juan Bobillo's art, I still miss him. He gave the She-Hulk title a distinct look and feel. As glad as I am to see Paul Smith and Rick Burchett working, I miss the quirkier and more distinct look of the first run.
It seems obvious that you don't want any silliness in your superheroes. That's cool. I've got some similar beefs. Obviously, grown men dressed in multicoloured tights firing lasers out of there eyes is serious literature.
I can dig it.
Still, if you're looking for funny. Try venturing beyond the tights and capes crowd.
Eric Powell's 'The Goon' is good. Kyle Baker does great funny stuff, as does Evan Dorkin. Steve Purcell's 'Sam & Max' is tragically out of print but funnier than a hat full of weasels. ADV's 'Cromartie High School' manga is one of my favourites.
People have already mentioned 'Blue Monday' and 'Scott Pilgrim'.
Lots of good stuff. Check it out.
I hate most of the serious works I see praised. I feel comics are at their worst when they try to hard to be dead serious, because we all know comics about people running around in tights are serious litrature.
So they get rid of the tights and replace them with leather or start drawing pointless seams al over them just to show "hey! We're being more realistic! It's not silly now! Just ignore that the costumes are still skin tight, the people still have silly names and powers, and they still run around fighting supervillinas."
It seems most writers these days are ashamed of what hooked the majority of people into comics in the first place, the high-octane action, bigger-than-life adventure, inconceivable villains, and the superheroes overcoming impossible odds.
It almost seems that half these people are ashamed to be writting titles like Spider-man, or Captain America, or Justice league and that the management feels they just aren't cool enough anymore, so they start sticking in higher body counts, psychotic personalities, and all that other grim and gritty stuff that pople claimed died in the 90s onto these guys, completley squeezing out the fun and innocence of the titles.
As for the line between silly and stupid, there's line is there betwen serious and stupid too, and yet people still claim Civil War is intresting when ever single issue it manages to stomp all over the past charaterization and ignoe the rots of the characters and the world they live in.
Bitter and cynical may be easy to do, but it's seldom done well by most writers and often comes across and forced.
Personally, the ones I hate are the ones that feel almost ashamed of their sillyness, so they replace their heroes costumes with tiht leather, or add all sorts of thick seems to the costumes, and start telling rape stories, or murder tales or whatever. it's almost like they're trying desperatley to scream "Hey! I'm serious here! The Mighty Adventures Captain Hero-Guy is a completley serious comic not some silly superhero thing!"
The "bitter" or "cynical" hero in my mind depends on the writer. I mean, I consider Ed Brubaker to be a more "realistic" super hero writer, but I also consider him the best writer at Marvel right now, but it can also go the other way where you have got guys like Bruce Jones that try to do that style and they stink. The style doesnt suck, so much as certain people writing in that style stink and therefore the books stink. Plus, if all super hero books returned to a more "campy" feel, I probably wouldnt buy them, it's just not for me.
I'm not saying the style is for everybody, but just like some writers are better with certain styles, some characters work better with certain styles.
Really, I think you need to balance things on both sides without letting one overall feel dominate everything, which sadly the more cynical stuff seems to be doing.
And I don't buy that stuff (as a general rule, there are expeptions.) Like you sad, it's just not for me.
True, but the biggest problem I think is us, the fans, as well. I think a lot of the fans and the writers and artists, etc. want comics to be viewed on the same level as TV, Movies, and Books, as "legit" forms of entertainment. I think more than any industry of entertainment, comics have the most "self" hate.
Anyone wants to start a 'Civil War' bashing thread, I'll be glad to rant. I don't have a problem with the basic concept and some of the issues have been enjoyable... I admit to shamelessly loving Captain America kicking SHIELD's collective ass practically single-handed, that's my idea of 'fun' comics actually... but overall the execution is heavy handed and despite all the 'we're going to be fair to both points of view' arguments they've made Tony Stark look like a control-obsessed cryptofascist who cares more about public perception than right and wrong (not at all his character in the past and really not well explained), Reed Richards look like a callous and Machiavellian creep (again really bad characterization), and the pro-registration argument always seems to come down to weak arguments the writers themselves can't bring themselves to take seriously. In which case it would have been better to have the government in bed with bad guys then force lame characterization on established good guys for the sake of drama.
Anyway, I'm really disappointed in Civil War, hated House of M, and didn't much care for Infinite Crisis over across the block. So you won't get me defending any of them. :)
The 'serious' books I do like? I like Ed Brubaker's Captain America and Daredevil a lot. I never would have thought a Batman-family writer would be the guy to write Cap, but I hope he stays on the book a long time. I /love/ Rex Mundi, though that's not a superhero comic so I suppose it doesn't count for the purposes of this thread. I've liked what I read of Checkmate and I like 'New Avengers' when it's being moody and conspiratorial, though it's nowhere near as good as Brubaker's books.
I do like quite a few funny books that have nothing to do with superheroes. I love 'Poison Elves', which I read in trade and which appeals to my sense of humor immensely. I love approximately the first half of 'Preacher', though the remainder of it falls off in quality in my opinion.
Since a couple people have mentioned it, sure, guys in tights isn't exactly the most 'serious' concept in a lot of ways. But no heroic fantasy of any genre or medium, whether it's as over the top as Superman or as relatively 'realistic' as 'Ivanhoe' survives the suspension of disbelief. That's why people use words like 'fantasy' and 'mythology', because the material so labelled is fundamentally not 'real'. The average cop movie or spy movie is as 'realistic' as superhero comics, if subjected to too much scrutiny. People like what they like.
I don't get the comment about wanting She-Hulk to get cancelled. I dropped the book just recently, because I didn't dig it at all since it was relaunched, but that doesn't mean that I want to see it dead and gone. Same with Cable and Deadpool, I loved Simone's take on the character, but I'm not big on either Cable or Nicienza, but I don't want them to axe the title just because I'm not buying it personally.
- Art is whatever makes you feel human.
- "You are what you love, not what loves you." - Donald Kaufman
- "Deserve's got nothing to do with it." - William Munny
- "Acquiescence. It's not so hard, really. You. Just. Give. In." - Col. Ives
Agreed, I dont mind She-Hulk or any other books being around if I dont buy them. I look at Black Panther as an example of this, I dislike the current direction and creative team, so I dropped the book. That said I dont want it canned, I just dont buy it. I mean with all seriousness, I wouldnt wish someone else was fired from their job if it didnt hurt me.