The 'Funny' Funnybooks (Mostly Marvel)

[ChrisMRich]

I'm going to stick my jaw out. Way out.

I mostly don't like the superhero humor books I see praised quite a lot out there. People complain comics aren't enough 'fun' relatively frequently, but think there's a thin line between 'fun' and 'silly' and an even thinner line between 'silly' and 'stupid' and most comic book writers just aren't good enough not to cross it. Even great writers can't always do it consistently, and most comic book writers aren't great.

I don't like some books whose praises people regularly sing, most notably She-Hulk and Nextwave. The former struck me as a not-particularly-original rehash of John Byrne's run on same (with a less talented writer and a really bad artist) and I didn't keep buying it, though I might be the only person out there who desperately wants to see and buy a seriously toned She-Hulk series that isn't a dumb humor book. The latter made me ask, not for the first time, whether Warren Ellis wouldn't be happier writing about something he likes when he obviously hates superheroes so much. Simply put, I stopped reading both books quickly and the latter being cancelled doesn't particularly bother me.

I think the best mainstream superhero comics are those that play it straight and that the most effective way to deal with the inherent silliness of many comic book staples is to make the effort to treat them as if they are not at all silly in their world. I find that humor books in the superhero genre all too often wallow in silliness and thereby avoid the need to have little things like plot or characterization.

This isn't to say that good superhero books can't be funny. But I like to read about characters I like, written by creators who like them too. All too often, the writers of 'funny' superhero titles seem like they really /don't/ like the characters abd are venting their personal hatred in the form of mean-spirited jokes at the character's expense. All too often, the characters in humor books are given radically different characterizations than they receive in serious books and this jars unpleasantly. Humor books are too often mean-spirited and characters are too often made stupid for the purposes of the jokes.

Humor can work very nicely in the context of a story. But all too often, satire becomes the substitute for plot and characterization becomes a set of broad gags. I think there are two questions writers should ask themselves before writing 'funny' superhero comics. First, would the story I want to write be better served by creating entirely new characters outside of continuity for the purposes of parody/satire? If you want to write pure satire or parody, then the best way to do that is to use characters created specifically to parody others rather than using the originals to parody themselves. Second, if that's not the case, would the story I want to write work whether it was intended to be humorous or not? A good story is a good story, independent of its humor content. If your story is completely dependent on its gag conventions, it's better to work at writing something that isn't.

I wasn't impressed by Nextwave and I'm not crying over it. I'd like to see She-Hulk cancelled as well. While, ideally, I'd love to see a serious She-Hulk book I don't believe this will happen because there likely isn't enough of a demand for it. It also risks being too much like Daredevil, revolving around a Super-Lawyer, though I personally think that there are significantly different angles that could be played in a She-Hulk book indepedent of stupid 4th Wall gags. That said, I do think a good writer could achieve quite a beneficial result by having Jennifer team up with Marvel's other lawyer-in-tights. Daredevil has had one sidekick vastly more powerful than himself in the past already, in Luke Cage. Giving a female partner who is his equal as a lawyer and much more powerful than him physically could be interesting, and I can see ways to make the power differentials work. Either of these solutions would be better than what is, essentially, a mildly funny title that wouldn't be worth reading if it weren't funny and isn't funny enough to be worth reading every month.

Well, my jaw's pretty well hanging out there now.

[Johnny Triangles]

the most unfunny superhero comedy book i read in a long time was DC's The Next. Sooooo corny. I like Nextwave though

[Ryan Day]

Two points:

I think "a serious She-Hulk book" is kind of an oxymoron. Even the character's name is absurd - my girlfriend couldn't believe that there actually is a character named She-Hulk, and, once I convinced her, asked why there wasn't a He-Hulk. (At which point she was just making fun of me)

If anything, Nextwave suggests Ellis loves superheroes, at least when done well and in well-moderated doses. The guy went back and read Not Brand Ecchs, fer cryin' out loud. Also, Elvis MODOKs and Fin Fang Foom. I don't think there's anything wrong in pointing out that there are a lot of ridiculous, stupid things that happen in comics.

[Reptisaurus!]

Two points:

I think "a serious She-Hulk book" is kind of an oxymoron. Even the character's name is absurd - my girlfriend couldn't believe that there actually is a character named She-Hulk, and, once I convinced her, asked why there wasn't a He-Hulk. (At which point she was just making fun of me)

Actually that's a really good point.

And, hey, CMR, you read Ambush Bug? That's generally considered the Sistine Chapel Celing of funny superheroes.

(At least by me. My avatar is the Bug's partner.)

Just curious as to what you think.

[lonesomefool]

I think the problem with a lot of the "silly" or "funny" books is the fact that they too often rely on nerd jokes. I mean I dropped She-Hulk in large part due to the fact that a lot of the jokes, are basically "wink, wink, nudge, nudge" towards older comic fans. Same for Cable/Deadpool, and as much as I LOVE X-Factor, pretty much every joke Peter David makes in his other books are the same thing.

To date the only comic that I thought was really funny without relying on insider comics humor was Nextwave, and even that recently relied on the things I mentioned above.

[FanboyStranger]

I think my favorite "funny" book of all time would have to be Joe Kelly's Deadpool run. It has some of the best joking dialogue around, but at its heart, it's really about a sick and twisted superbeing (not remotely near a hero, despite saving the world a few times, yet not quite a villain) not coming to an understanding of himself. So, he just laughs his way through the pathetic life he's created for himself, because the alternative is just too painful.

Seriously, it's effin' hysterical!

[BillR]

I love funny comics. Scurvy Dogs and Street Angel are probably the most recent awesome hilarious books, besides Nextwave. (Warren may say he doesn't like superheroes, but he means he doesn't like poorly-done superheroes-- which is most of them. But clearly he loves the idea of them. Hence, Nextwave.)

Giffen and DeMatteis JLI is the classic example of a funnybook.

[FanboyStranger]

Another "funny" book that crossed by mind after I finished that post about Kelly's Deadpool was Priest and MD Bright's Quantum and Woody. It was the Lethal Weapon of the superhero world, and while it had more than its share of pandering to comic book fans jokes (I'm fairly convinced that every Priest book written in the '90s had a scene where two characters dressed as Power Man and Iron Fist, then said, "Hell no!"), it was really solid 'buddy' movie at its core. The scene where they switch bodies due to some anomaly in the Quantum Field, then have to go to the bathroom is priceless-- "Any more than three shakes and you're officially playing with it!"

[Ryan Day]

Some superheroes need humour to be successful. She-Hulk is a perfectly decent example - what is she? She's a strong, green chick. She's a female version of a male hero who hasn't been a top seller in a long time.

Or Blue Beetle (Ted Kord version) - he's not quite Batman, not really Spider-Man... What's the point of the Blue Beetle? I really don't know.

It's not like someone couldn't tell good, straight stories with the characters, but it's a challenge since they don't have strong identities and are second or third generation copies of other characters. Unless Grant Morrison wants to write them, they're going to have a hard time standing out from the crowd, so why not get a little wacky with them? Nexwave is certainly the best thing to ever happen to Elsa Bloodstone, and the best thing for Machine Man since Barry Windsor-Smith.

I wish there were more funny books. If we get away from superheroes, I love several of Slave Labor's recent books - Bear, Street Angel, Rex Libris. Ben Templesmith's Wormwood: Gentleman Corpse is a hoot. Scott Pilgrim rules, obviously, and I'm hopeful that Chynna Clugston will one day return to Oni for more Blue Monday.

The Giffen/DeMatteis/Maguire JLI is classic, of course. I think it spun out of control after a while, but it was awesome for a while. And I loved Formerly Known As...

[shyguy]

I think "a serious She-Hulk book" is kind of an oxymoron. Even the character's name is absurd - my girlfriend couldn't believe that there actually is a character named She-Hulk, and, once I convinced her, asked why there wasn't a He-Hulk. (At which point she was just making fun of me)

Agreed. I can't imagine the point of a serious She-Hulk. It'd be like having a serious Mighty Mouse.

Humorous superhero books are hit and miss with me. I think She-Hulk is one of the best superhero books of the past twenty years, funny or otherwse, and Nextwave was fantastic. By contrast, I thought the recent Superman/Batman Annual by Joe Kelly had maybe a couple laughs in it and wasn't overly impressed. Likewise, the recent Spirit issue left me pretty cold. A lot of stuff that's supposed to be funny in recent superhero comics is just warmed-over stuff that I read done better on the internet a year ago.

A lot of the time I find myself a lot more entertained by the funny bits in stuff like Robert Kirkman's Invincible and Ant-Man. He's also good at doing dark humor, like in Marvel Zombies.

I'm a huge JLI fan (Hero Squared is extremely funny in parts), but Keith Giffen tends to get carried away when it comes to certain characters (the L-Ron/Manga Khan interaction gets old after about half a page; ditto what's-his-face from Hero Squared). And really, Giffen needs to be paired with a good artist for his humor to work, since a lot of the JLI stuff was dependant on how funny Kevin Maguire's figures could be.

[ChrisMRich]

JLI is, in my mind, the absolute best example of the absolute garbage I hate most in 'funny' superhero books. I admit some of it /was/ pretty funny, but the run overall was the one of the worst things to happen to comic books and why, while Giffen and DeMatteis have both individually done work I really like (Kraven's Last Hunt, most especially, in the latter's case and the former's excellent artistic run on Legion of Superheroes), I can't bring myself to buy anything with their names on it /together/. In fact, the only superhero humor book I liked less than JLI was when Giffen and DeMatteis gave the JLI treatment to the Defenders. It really made me shudder.

My big problem with humor books in the JLI and She-Hulk mode (though I admit, I liked She-Hulk when Byrne first remade it as a humor book, my major beef with Slott's take is that it feels so completely like a tired retread of Byrne's version, with the fourth veil gags creaking with rust) is the tendency (after time, if not always immediately) for the creative teams to eventually entirely abandon anything like plot in favor of coasting on the gags. JLI was the worst at this, with every plot and character element eventually reduced to the cheapest gag possible and no attempt whatsoever to tell actual stories. I still maintain that the ability to be funny is ultimately the least important part of even humorous storytelling, that the primary goal should still be telling a story. If the humor is necessary for the story to be enjoyable, then the writing isn't worthy of taking up a title in a direct market where quantity already far trumps quality.

I /loved/ Deadpool, though the first few miniseries were always my favorites, precisely because while it was always /immensely/ funny the stories never limped on the humor like a crutch. Throw out the humor and you still had readable stories, and the fact that they were so funny made good stories great. The same is true of Gail Simone's 'Villains United' mini for DC, the best examples of Garth Ennis' MAX Punisher title (though I freely admit I get tired of some of Garth's stand-by jokes), and Mike Mignola's wonderful, wonderful 'Hellboy'.

I don't see the love in Nextwave, though I respect the opinions of those who defend it. I always thought it, like Warren Ellis' take on Son of Satan, was meanspirited and hateful and utterly contemptuous of its characters in the worst way. I disliked Ennis' take on Ghost Rider for much the same reasons.

There have been good 'funny' superhero books before and I think there will be again, but I still maintain the best 'funny' superhero books are superhero books first and funny second unless one wants to wade into outright parody: and outright parody is best done, well, completely outright and not in the guise of an established character.

[yo go re]

In She-Hulk's defense, the terrible artist seems to be gone now. And the book definitely has a real plot going on behind all the jokes, only a very few of which have struck me as explicitly "fourth wall-y." Of course, I didn't read the book when it started, so I can't really say how the current issues compare to the ones you read - other than the art, which is no longer donkeyballs. In any case, there's more happening in the book than just an excuse to throw some wacky, wacky gags out there.

Nextwave, meanwhile, is all about the wacky gags. It has as much plot as your average summer movie. However, I think a different intent comes through in the book. You can really get the feeling with Ellis' Son of Satan that he was sitting there going "yeah, that'll show him!" while he typed the scripts. "Take that! Bastard." Reading Nextwave, I almost get a feeling of unmitigated glee as he writes, freed by ignoring the staid seriousness of modern comicbooks and basking in their deep-seated goofiness...

[Brady]

I don't think the comparison is really apt between She Hulk and Next Wave. Next Wave is straight up whackiness. Its killer drop bears, klepto mutants, human hating robots and stuff exploding. It's hilarious (IMO) but it's a humour book. There's no character development or plot progression, nor is there meant to be.

She Hulk uses a lot of humour, but it can be serious too. There's character development, ongoing plots, etc. It's a comic with a lot of humour but it's not a comedy book. It just uses humour the same way Runaways or Astonishing X Men does.

Using TV comparisons; Next Wave is like Arrested Development, a really great sitcom. She Hulk would be more like an Entourage, consistently hilarious but not classed as a comedy show.

[lonesomefool]

Perhaps it isnt fair to compare Nextwave and She-Hulk, but I bet if you handed someone on the street a copy of Nextwave and a copy of She-Hulk they would say Nextwave is funnier, I mean realistically I cant see someone laughing at character arguing about waiting for the trade or which volume She-Hulk is on.

[OzBat!]

The two books I've enjoyed most the last couple of years, have been Plastic Man, and now Nextwave. The humour in both was at several levels; situational, industry ribbing, and flat out punnery amongst them.

It's a sad loss not having anything from the big two currently that matches these books. And they've definitely got the characters that can carry them.