Who Are The People Who Actually Like Meltzer's JLA Narrations?

[Johnny Triangles]

What are your opinions of Meltzer's JLA narrations? Does anyone else hate them? I don't see much online dialogue directed toward this topic, more is focused on the infamous rape, but to me his narrations are his worst offense.

First the "man crush" stuff just comes off creepy: "Hal is the best of us" "People think I like Roy because he reminds me of Ollie, but no. It's bigger than that. It's his fearlessness." Then when he goes into badass narration mode, it just gets worse: "He thinks fast. I think faster."

I will say, the best badass dialogue I've seen in a superhero comic to this day remains Dark Knight Returns: "You've got rights. Lots of rights. Sometimes I count them just to make myself feel crazy." I think Meltzer is trying to get his own classic badass line of that caliber but is just a little too geeky to pull it off.

[Rob on the Job]

Just once, I wish a character would tell the reader to mind his own business and stay out of his thoughts.

[suedenim]

It's definitely an overused gimmick. Loeb's another writer who's driven it into the ground, but the technique seems to work for him more often than not - it covers for weaknesses elsewhere more than drawing attention to itself. Loeb uses it as a crutch, to strain a metaphor, but it's the kind of crutch that lets him hobble along with reasonable efficiency (for a guy on crutches.)

But Meltzer's crutches seem to break a lot, making him fall down. I was especially shocked in Justice League of America #4, to see that he wasn't even following his own internal rules about how to use narrative captions. After several issues clearly establishing the captions as internal narrative, there's a bit where they're clearly used to indicate spoken dialogue. Very, very clumsy.

[Rob on the Job]

Nevertheless, I enjoyed Meltzer's "Identity Crisis" very, very much.

[Johnny Triangles]

It's definitely an overused gimmick. Loeb's another writer who's driven it into the ground, but the technique seems to work for him more often than not - it covers for weaknesses elsewhere more than drawing attention to itself. Loeb uses it as a crutch, to strain a metaphor, but it's the kind of crutch that lets him hobble along with reasonable efficiency (for a guy on crutches.)

Loeb, I will admit, is marginally better at the gimmick than Meltzer, although I've found out that alot of Loeb's quotes are lifted directly from other movies and comics.

[Rob on the Job]

It would be interesting, if even for a story arc or two, if a writer took the Ernest Hemingway approach and showed us little or nothing of what a character is thinking ... and making us focus instead on what a character says or does, and deduce from those alone.

It's difficult, I admit, but it might make people study what was really happening on the page.

[Shellhead]

But Meltzer's crutches seem to break a lot, making him fall down. I was especially shocked in Justice League of America #4, to see that he wasn't even following his own internal rules about how to use narrative captions. After several issues clearly establishing the captions as internal narrative, there's a bit where they're clearly used to indicate spoken dialogue. Very, very clumsy.

I hated Identity Crisis. I think that it's one of the worst things that ever happened in comics. I won't read any other comics written by Meltzar, because I just can't forgive him for Identity Crisis.

That said, it's possible that the problem with the captions in JLA #4 is not Meltzar's fault. He writes the script, but he doesn't personally lay out the panels, let alone place word balloons or captions.

For what it's worth, after Identity Crisis, I did check out one of his books from the library, to see how well he writes books. The First Counsel was actually a pretty good read. It was a compelling page turner, although the plot twists sometimes strained credibility with fantastic coincidences, and the revelation about the main female character invalidated a great deal of characterization in my eyes, downgrading the whole book from great to just okay.

[suedenim]

It would be interesting, if even for a story arc or two, if a writer took the Ernest Hemingway approach and showed us little or nothing of what a character is thinking ... and making us focus instead on what a character says or does, and deduce from those alone.

It's difficult, I admit, but it might make people study what was really happening on the page.

A lot of writers do take this approach, but one problem with it is that you have to rely on your artist to carry some of the load, and an awful lot of artists these days simply aren't capable of that.

Which incidentally makes me wonder if overuse of narrative captions and similar devices is a sort of self-defense mechanism for the writer? It reminds me of something Kevin Smith (I think) said once - that the main reason he became a movie director was to protect his scripts. In Hollywood, the writer doesn't have the clout to insist on his screenplay being filmed as written, but the director does.

An interesting analytical experiment might be a comparison of writers vs. writer/artists - I'd guess the ones who draw their own work make less use of internal narration and thought balloons.

[Matthew E]

I am okay with the captions in Justice League.

[Matt Algren]

First the "man crush" stuff just comes off creepy: "Hal is the best of us" "People think I like Roy because he reminds me of Ollie, but no. It's bigger than that. It's his fearlessness." Then when he goes into badass narration mode, it just gets worse: "He thinks fast. I think faster."

Beyond the man crush, people just don't think like that.

It'd be one thing if the narration were self-aware, like in Mark Waid's Flash, where every issue started with “My Name is Wally West. I’m the fastest man alive. I’m the Flash!” Or Dixon's Nightwing, where (I'm going from memory, here) the narration was past tense, like Dick was telling someone the story. But things like "I like Roy for his fearlessness" is just clunky and rings false.

[Sean Walsh]

Oh, Meltzer's narration in JLA and anything else of his I've read is leagues (no pun really intended) beyond Loeb using historical speeches and dialogue from other mediums in his stories.

[Paperghost]

he's awful. if he and dan didio ever got it on, they'd spawn a race of evil super beings capable of destroying your childhood with a single bound.

apart from all that "the panther in me" garbage, there was one page that made me howl out loud and mutter to myself for a few minutes. the one in the latest issue (I think) where the....oh god, what's her name....lets call her Manimal.....was flying with birds and there were these HORRENDOUS pieces of dialogue about her being lost or whatever done in animal-stylee.

Can't remember exactly what it said, but no. just........no.

[Michael P]

I find it horribly dull.

Speaking of Kevin Smith, his abuse of the narrative caption completely killed "Guardian Devil" for me.

[Matt Algren]

It would be interesting, if even for a story arc or two, if a writer took the Ernest Hemingway approach and showed us little or nothing of what a character is thinking ... and making us focus instead on what a character says or does, and deduce from those alone.

It's difficult, I admit, but it might make people study what was really happening on the page.

Read All-Star Superman. We haven't read a word of Superman's thoughts yet, and ain't no Superman like All-Star Superman.

[BillR]

A lot of writers do take this approach, but one problem with it is that you have to rely on your artist to carry some of the load, and an awful lot of artists these days simply aren't capable of that.

Which incidentally makes me wonder if overuse of narrative captions and similar devices is a sort of self-defense mechanism for the writer?

That was the reason for it in the 60's, but we were supposed to have outgrown that by now.

I don't like the new overabundance of these narrative captions-- I've thought about simply ignoring their existance and reading the comic without them.

And Meltzer's writing is awful so it especially doesn't help.