Peregrine an Avenger? And other lesser members...

[Gaastra]

My first post!

Hi everyone.

I was looking through another avengers board and found this.

http://www.comicboards.com/avengers/...l=061201104733

I didn't know peregrine was an avenger.

I heard death head was an avenger in avengers forever and human torch 2 joined in avengers vol 2 issue 13.

Can anyone give me a list of all lesser avengers?

[LordEd1976]

What exactly do you mean when you say "lesser" Avengers?

[Gaastra]

Avengers noboy talks about.

The c-stringers.

[Den]

Ah. Hawkeye, master of the con game. :)

[mattbib]

This thread lists every Avenger ever.

Except possible/future/alternate reality Avengers, which don't really count.


Needless to say, regardless of what Hawkwye said in that story, Peregrine is not now nor ever has been an Avenger.

[Haunt]

Peregrine and Micromax fought alongside the Avengers during the Kang War, iirc.

[mattbib]

Peregrine and Micromax fought alongside the Avengers during the Kang War, iirc.

Yeah, they did. But are you just saying so, or are you suggesting that makes them Avengers?

[XPac]

Yeah, they did. But are you just saying so, or are you suggesting that makes them Avengers?

Sometimes the Avengers roster is pretty flexible in that regard though.

Captain Mar-Vell and the Guardians of the Galaxy became Avengers just by osmosis. Not that I consider those guys Avengers... but I never really considered the Guardians Avengers either until handbooks and such started listing them as such.

[mattbib]

Sometimes the Avengers roster is pretty flexible in that regard though.

Captain Mar-Vell and the Guardians of the Galaxy became Avengers just by osmosis. Not that I consider those guys Avengers... but I never really considered the Guardians Avengers either until handbooks and such started listing them as such.

Oh, I know, but there's still formalities involved. Or at least there were at the time of Peregrine's team-up with Clint. And as you said, Mar-Vell and the Guardians both have classified memberships, even if they are only honorary. Same as Moira Brandon.

But, IMO at least, Clint simply telling Peregrine that he's an Avenger for that mission doesn't really cut it. And since Marvel doesn't consider him an Avenger, honorary or otherwise, there's not much to back up Peregrine being called an Avenger.

[Haunt]

Oh, I know, but there's still formalities involved. Or at least there were at the time of Peregrine's team-up with Clint. And as you said, Mar-Vell and the Guardians both have classified memberships, even if they are only honorary. Same as Moira Brandon.

But, IMO at least, Clint simply telling Peregrine that he's an Avenger for that mission doesn't really cut it. And since Marvel doesn't consider him an Avenger, honorary or otherwise, there's not much to back up Peregrine being called an Avenger.

how's it any different than when Captain America told Demolition-Man that he was an Avenger?

[Gaastra]

Didn't hawkeye make the great lakes avengers an avengers team.

Cap was ok with it a few issues later.

He also made Moria Brandon an avenger in wca 100 right?

Isn't this the same?

[Sean McQuaid]

I didn't know peregrine was an avenger.

He's not an Avenger, actually, and never was an Avenger. It's an Internet myth that pops up every once in a while, due to people misinterpreting a line of dialogue from an old SOLO AVENGERS story where Hawkeye jokingly says he made Peregrine an honorary Avenger for the duration of a fight. It wasn't a formal thing, just Hawkeye making with the snappy patter.

Hawkeye also says he's taking Stealth 101 classes during another line of dialogue from that story, but I don't think we're meant to take that line seriously or literally, either.

And since Hawkeye didn't much care for Peregrine and couldn't wait to get away from him at the end of the story, I doubt Hawkeye really meant to grant Peregrine any kind of Avengers membership at that point in time.

It wasn't even an Avengers case or Avengers business -- it was just Hawkeye on his own, teaming up with Peregrine to rescue the Sandman.

Also worth noting: one of the bigger and better in-house efforts to define the complete Avengers roster came in the late 90s during the Busiek-Perez AVENGERS run, when series writer Kurt Busiek and editor Tom Brevoort teamed up to make a definitive list of who all had ever been an Avenger. Peregrine was not on the list, and Tom and Kurt have both confirmed on occasion since then that Peregrine wasn't supposed to be on the list, and was never considered part of the team.

And Peregrine hasn't been recognized by any Avengers roster anywhere -- not in the AVENGERS LOG or the AVENGERS CASEBOOK, not in the 1980s Handbooks, not in the 1990s Handbooks, not in any of the recent Handbooks, nor in any Avengers comics.

So no, Peregrine is not and has never been a member of the Avengers.

I heard death head was an avenger in avengers forever

Some version of Death's Head was among the hundreds of characters who appeared as alternate-reality Avengers in AVENGERS FOREVER, but he was never part of the "real" Avengers, nor were other alternate-reality cameo Avengers in that book like Texas Twister or Banshee. Never members of the Avengers in this reality, not part of the overall Avengers roster.

human torch 2 joined in avengers vol 2 issue 13

A temporary alternate reality scenario, so that one also doesn't count. Ditto for the temporary alternate-reality Avengers teams in ULTRAFORCE/AVENGERS, Forever Yesterday, etc.

Can anyone give me a list of all lesser avengers?

Let's see...

--------------------------

OBSCURE AVENGERS
Darkhawk, Demolition Man, Hellcat, Machine Man, Sandman, Stingray, Thing, Two-Gun Kid

These guys were full members of the Avengers at one time or another, but didn't make many appearances as members.

--------------------------

HONORARY AVENGERS
Aleta, Moira Brandon, Captain Marvel (Mar-Vell), Charlie-27, Deathcry, Jocasta, Rick Jones, Magdalene, Major Victory, Marrina, Martinex, Masque (Whitney Frost bio-duplicate), Nikki, Starhawk, Swordsman (Phillip Jarvert), Whizzer (Bob Frank), Yellowjacket (Rita DeMara), Yondu

People formally recognized as members by the Avengers, but not possessing the full range of duties, privileges and responsibilities associated with standard members.

--------------------------

GREAT LAKES AVENGERS
Big Bertha, Dinah Soar, Doorman, Flatman, Grasshopper, Mister Immortal, Monkey Joe, Squirrel Girl, Tippy Toe

A special case. These guys started up their own unauthorized Avengers expansion team, which was mentored for a while by official Avengers members Hawkeye and Mockingbird. While never full members of the Avengers, the GLA did have some sort of never-fully-defined affiliation with the standard Avengers for at least a while starting in the Hawk/Mock days, and were called in as backup for the real Avengers a time or two; however, any formal Avengers connection or approval the group might have had ended in GLA #4, when the Maria Stark Foundation forced them to stop using the Avengers name.

(I intentionally omitted Leather Boy from this GLA list since his brief membership in the GLA ended before the team had any involvement with the real Avengers.)

--------------------------

YOUNG AVENGERS
Hawkeye (Kate Bishop), Hulkling, Iron Lad, Patriot, Speed, Stature, Vision (second-generation android) & Wiccan.

Another special case. Like the GLA, an initially unauthorized spinoff group that later operated with the approval/cooperation of the Avengers proper. Also like the GLA, not real members of the Avengers.

--------------------------

SECRET AVENGERS
Black Mamba, Cable, Cloak, Dagger, Daredevil, Debrii, Diamondback, Goliath (Bill Foster), Hawkeye (Kate Bishop), Hulkling, Human Torch (Johnny Storm), Nighthawk, Patriot, Punisher, Silhouette, Speed, Stature, Ultragirl, Vision (the new one), Wiccan

"Secret Avengers" is a name sometimes used to describe Captain America's underground resistance team in the Civil War storyline. Includes various official Avengers members such as Cap, but also various characters who have never been official Avengers members, such as the characters listed above.
Note: Cable, Nighthawk and Stature have since left the SA.

--------------------------

OFFERED MEMBERSHIP
Archangel, Black Cat, Daredevil, Dazzler, Doc Samson, Iceman, Jessica Jones, Shroud, Silver Surfer, Songbird

These guys were offered Avengers membership and turned it down.

--------------------------

1950s AVENGERS
Gorilla Man (Ken Hale), Human Robot, Marvel Boy (Robert Grayson), 3-D Man, Venus

Members of an alternate-reality Avengers team active in the 1950s. Not members of our reality's Avengers, though 3-D Man was merged with Avengers member Triathlon for a while.

-Sean

[Sean McQuaid]

how's it any different than when Captain America told Demolition-Man that he was an Avenger?

- We see Cap offer and we see D-Man accept. Even if we treat Hawkeye's statement as a serious membership statement/offer (which it clearly wasn't in context), there's no indication whatsoever that Le Peregrine accepted it.

- Cap's offer was made at Avengers headquarters in the context of a serious conversation about the breakup of the eastern Avengers roster and the lack of any active members except Cap. The Hawkeye incident, on the other hand, had nothing to do with the Avengers as a team, and there's no indication that Hawkeye or the western roster needed or wanted additional recruits at this time.

- As noted, Cap's the one and only active member of the eastern roster at this time, so it makes sense that he could unilaterally declare someone else's membership in that roster. By contrast, while Hawkeye was western roster chair during this period, he was not the only active western member and didn't usually make these sorts of decisions alone.

- Context is key: in that SOLO AVENGERS story, Hawkeye and Peregrine are working together reluctantly, don't much like each other, and Hawkeye can't wait to ditch Peregrine and Sandman by story's end. The story as a whole makes it pretty clear that Hawkeye would be very unlikely to extend any sort of Avengers membership to Peregrine at that point in time.

- Unlike Peregrine, D-Man's membership was recognized/confirmed by later stories and references. No in-print Marvel source has ever supported an interpretation of Peregrine as an Avengers member.

-Sean

[Nevets F]

Wow Sean, very great detailed list.

One question, the "Aleta" you mention, is this the one from the Guardians of the Galaxy? If so, I didn't think she was a member of the GotG when they became members. I haven't seen her listed as an Avenger before.

[Sean McQuaid]

Didn't hawkeye make the great lakes avengers an avengers team.

Not really. Hawkeye and Mockingbird's involvement in the GLA as mentors/leaders gave the team enough credibility that the real Avengers tolerated the GLA's use of the Avengers name and worked with them on occasion, but there was never any indication that the standard Avengers extended full Avengers membership to GLAers who hadn't already served with the standard Avengers.

He also made Moria Brandon an avenger in wca 100right? Isn't this the same?

Nope:

- Even if we treat Hawkeye's SOLO AVENGERS statement as a serious membership statement/offer (which it clearly wasn't in context), there's no indication whatsoever that Le Peregrine accepted it (if anything, he seemed rather unimpressed by Hawkeye joking around instead of concentrating on the fight). By contrast, Moira seemed thrilled to accept Avengers membership (albeit the honorary kind), declaring it her "greatest role".

- The Peregrine incident had nothing to do with the Avengers as a team, and no other Avengers were present apart from Hawkeye. The Brandon story took place in what became Avengers Compound as Moira was in the process of selling the property to the team, and at least one other Avenger (Mockingbird) was present in addition to Hawkeye.

- Just as Cap was the only active eastern-roster member when he recruited D-Man, Hawkeye and Mockingbird were the only western-roster members when Hawkeye awarded Moira honorary membership, so no other teammates required for consultation or approval.

- Again, context is key: in that SOLO AVENGERS story, Hawkeye and Peregrine are working together reluctantly, don't much like each other, and Hawkeye can't wait to ditch Peregrine and Sandman by story's end. The story as a whole makes it pretty clear that Hawkeye would be very unlikely to extend any sort of Avengers membership to Peregrine at that point in time. By contrast, Moira had just saved Hawkeye's and Mockingbird's lives in addition to providing their new team a home, so their attitude regarding her was one of gratitude and respect, and Hawkeye's membership statement was a sincere one.

- Unlike Peregrine, Moira's membership was recognized/confirmed by later references. No in-print Marvel source has ever supported an interpretation of Peregrine as an Avengers member.

-Sean
(who has actually been a Peregrine fan ever since CONTEST OF CHAMPIONS, and wouldn't mind seeing him join the Avengers someday...)